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#Post#: 86250--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge, 53j - restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Sydney road, Perrymans farm road,
DIR By: flash2005
Date: August 19, 2025, 3:00 am
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There are only these 5 options to select in the appeal. Which
one should be selected here, as the procedural impropriety
option is missing
•
occur ☐
•
☐
•
the control of someone without my consent ☐
•
circumstances of the case ☐
•
for a period of less than six months. ☐
#Post#: 86251--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge, 53j - restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Sydney road, Perrymans farm road,
DIR By: flash2005
Date: August 19, 2025, 3:05 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> As far as I can see there is nothing wrong or inadequate in
your original reps, (Hippocrates said "good stuff"). However,
the regulations for traffic signs have been studied in more
detail since cases of very high, (even absurdly high) have
arisen, and recommendations on traffic sign positioning are
found in Sectio 5.1 of the Traffic Signs Manual 2018: -
>
> 5.4 Mounting heights
> 5.4.1. Signs should be mounted such that the lower edge of the
sign is generally between 900 mm and 1500 mm above the highest
point of the adjacent carriageway. Signs mounted at the lower
end of this range benefit from receiving the most illumination
from vehicle headlamps, but they are also prone to soiling due
to spray from passing vehicles. Mounting heights at the higher
end of the range should be used where this or obscuration by
other vehicles is likely to be a problem. Speed limit signs and
other safety-critical signs will not normally be mounted lower
than 1500 mm above the carriageway.
>
> 5.4.2. Where signs are erected above footways and cycle
tracks, adequate clearance must be allowed for pedestrians,
cyclists and equestrians. Interim Advice Note 195/16 ‘Cycle
Traffic and the Strategic Road Network’ requires a minimum
height for such structures of 2300 mm for pedestrians and 2400
mm for cyclists. However, to minimise the environmental impact
of signs, particularly large directional signs, consideration
should be given to adopting lower mounting heights. A minimum
clearance of 2100 mm should be maintained over footways, 2300 mm
over cycle tracks or shared-use facilities and 2700 mm over
equestrian routes.
>
> 5.4.3. Detailed consideration may be necessary for the
combined effects of location and mounting height at some
junctions in order to take account of the differing eye heights
of drivers of cars, lorries and other road users. The aim is to
optimise the benefits and minimise the disadvantages to any one
category of road user at a given site. Alternatively, use of
LED- powered internally-illuminated signs might be
considered (see section 11). If signs are to be externally lit,
the signs should be raised to take into account the risk of
vandalism.
>
> 5.4.4. Regulatory signs must be placed as near as practicable
to the start of a restriction and it is preferable to place them
on the back line of the footway, or the verge where no footway
is present. They should not be placed right on the corner of the
junction, or right on the kerb side. Signs at a junction should
be set back from the road, where practical, to aid driver’s
visibility when turning in to that road. Setting a sign in this
manner makes it aesthetically more attractive, less liable to
damage, and more readily visible to road users who need to see
it. It may also be sensible to angle signs at junctions slightly
towards the side road carriageway so that they can be seen by
turning traffic (particularly at night where signs are not
directly lit and need to be illuminated by headlamps).
>
> 5.4.5. The fixing bands that attach the sign to the support
should be tight enough and of an appropriate design to stop
signs slipping or twisting around, or being deliberately rotated
to give incorrect information to drivers. Designers should
ensure adequate consideration is given to f ixings/support for
sign plates as this is one of the main causes of failure.
Manufacturers should supply suitable and appropriate fixings in
accordance with their own declaration of performance to prevent
panel separation, twist or slippage, including appropriate
torque settings.
>
> So you can see the councils all so terrified of litigation if
a pedestrian bangs his head on a sign mounted above a pavement,
that they mount them beyond the tallest possible person !
>
--- End Quote ---
should I present a video of driving normally and presenting a
view of how it is impossible to read the signs when driving on
the road and turning into the junction as evidence ?
#Post#: 86362--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge, 53j - restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Sydney road, Perrymans farm road,
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 19, 2025, 2:04 pm
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That would be a killer appeal, but it needs to be watertight.
#Post#: 86380--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge, 53j - restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Sydney road, Perrymans farm road,
DIR By: flash2005
Date: August 19, 2025, 3:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I am still not clear on which option is applicable here for the
appeal here ? Is it no 4 ? Penalty charge exceeded the amount
applicable.
• The contravention alleged by the Authority on the PCN did
not occur ☐
• I was not the owner of the vehicle at the material time
☐
• At the time of the alleged contravention the vehicle was
in the control of someone without my consent ☐
• The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the
circumstances of the case ☐
• We are a hire firm and have supplied a valid hire
agreement for a period of less than six months. ☐
#Post#: 86382--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge, 53j - restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Sydney road, Perrymans farm road,
DIR By: flash2005
Date: August 19, 2025, 3:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> That would be a killer appeal, but it needs to be watertight.
>
--- End Quote ---
Didn't understand the point about watertight ? What else can be
added here ?
#Post#: 86407--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge, 53j - restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Sydney road, Perrymans farm road,
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 19, 2025, 6:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: flash2005 link ---
>
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=7105.msg86362#msg86362
date=1755630257]
> That would be a killer appeal, but it needs to be watertight.
>
--- End Quote ---
Didn't understand the point about watertight ? What else can be
added here ?
[/quote]
The video needs to show that seeing the signs would require an
unusual action by the driver, who is engaged in driving around
urban streets with the need to be constantly on the alert for
hazards. Should a driver look skywards when driving around such
streets ? My answer is NO !!
#Post#: 86660--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge, 53j - restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Sydney road, Perrymans farm road,
DIR By: flash2005
Date: August 21, 2025, 10:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> [quote author=flash2005 link=topic=7105.msg86382#msg86382
date=1755634207]
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=7105.msg86362#msg86362
date=1755630257]
> That would be a killer appeal, but it needs to be watertight.
>
--- End Quote ---
Didn't understand the point about watertight ? What else can be
added here ?
[/quote]
The video needs to show that seeing the signs would require an
unusual action by the driver, who is engaged in driving around
urban streets with the need to be constantly on the alert for
hazards. Should a driver look skywards when driving around such
streets ? My answer is NO !!
[/quote]
I have taken videos of both roads. Is this watertight ? The
sign on the left side can't even be seen, and the one on the
right side is too square of an angle to actually read.
Sydney Road left turn
HTML https://youtu.be/kHtxIoi3Hrg
Perryman Road left turn
HTML https://youtu.be/pknyGtLJPSw
#Post#: 86697--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge, 53j - restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Sydney road, Perrymans farm road,
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 21, 2025, 1:29 pm
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Not really, because it needs to be in Landscape mode. At the
moment it is the kind of view a horse got when it was wearing
blinkers.
#Post#: 86731--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge, 53j - restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Sydney road, Perrymans farm road,
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: August 22, 2025, 4:18 am
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HTML https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg86653/#msg86653
#Post#: 86734--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge, 53j - restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Sydney road, Perrymans farm road,
DIR By: flash2005
Date: August 22, 2025, 4:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
>
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg86653/#msg86653
>
--- End Quote ---
This is an excellent point, and I will add this to the appeal as
extra ammunition. I will also take another video in landscape
mode today. I still don't have clarity on which option to
select as the reason for the appeal while submitting it as the
procedural impropriety option is missing.
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