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#Post#: 7308--------------------------------------------------
Camden: Using a route restricted to certain vehicles local buses
and cycles only Tottenham Court Road
DIR By: iispartan
Date: October 12, 2023, 5:24 pm
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Hi all,
Wondering if I’ve got an argument at all here, but may need to
bite the bullet.
I got a PCN from Camden council date of notice 10/10/2023 and
date of contravention was 26/09/2023. It’s a very sneaky camera
preventing cards driving through this section of TCR.
It was actually my mother driving me from my wisdom teeth
removal surgery at the UCLH, and she took this route home. I was
heavily sedated from the operation but I don’t know if this
argument would stand.
I attach here all picture evidence along with the PCN.
HTML https://imgur.com/a/YcovWL1
GSV:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/5oTqeSogHC98qaPs6?g_st=ic
HTML https://imgur.com/a/OLQD5BL
Any thoughts appreciated.
Thanks
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 7311--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden: Using a route restricted to certain vehicles local
buses and cycles only Tottenham Court Road
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 12, 2023, 5:50 pm
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Well, you've gone past a bus gate sign. Can you give us a GSV
link to the location please.
As for the PCN, I'm not sure that is the right sign for the
contravention on the PCN. But I'm not an expert so see what the
others say, but don't miss any deadlines on the PCN.
#Post#: 7322--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden: Using a route restricted to certain vehicles local
buses and cycles only Tottenham Court Road
DIR By: iispartan
Date: October 13, 2023, 2:45 am
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I’ve included a GSV link now
#Post#: 7326--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden: Using a route restricted to certain vehicles local
buses and cycles only Tottenham Court Road
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 13, 2023, 3:31 am
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--- Quote from: iispartan link ---
>
> I’ve included a GSV link now
>
--- End Quote ---
Sign is plain enough, but GSV is a bit of a dog's breakfast
around here. I am trying to see if there is any advance warning.
#Post#: 7403--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden: Using a route restricted to certain vehicles local
buses and cycles only Tottenham Court Road
DIR By: iispartan
Date: October 14, 2023, 3:07 am
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Reading articles and even cabbies are getting tickets, I’m
guessing I’ve got no grounds to fight here ..
HTML https://www.taxi-point.co.uk/post/fines-begin-taxi-drivers-and-motorists-start-receiving-pcns-for-tottenham-court-road-restrictions
#Post#: 7430--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden: Using a route restricted to certain vehicles local
buses and cycles only Tottenham Court Road
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 14, 2023, 9:54 am
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Video:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ3qdwjHZlg
One argument worth raising is that the PCN does not state the
exact location, and there is a very significant number of
restrictions on Tottenham Court Road, so much so that in
Commercial Plant Services Ltd v London Borough of Camden
(223028230A, 19 July 2023)
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1fnXup_24n84khvRzDQeb1r7Gx1RpTH75<br
/>the council got itself in a muddle about where the allegation
was supposed to have taken place.
Another somewhat more involved strategy is to give the council a
link to a video or image you want them to consider, and setting
it up view a click / view counter so we can prove whether
they're looked at your supporting evidence. If they fail to look
at it, you can then win on a failure to consider.
#Post#: 7490--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden: Using a route restricted to certain vehicles local
buses and cycles only Tottenham Court Road
DIR By: iispartan
Date: October 15, 2023, 3:28 pm
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Thanks cp, this sounds like an argument worth pursuing
especially with case backing it up somewhat. What grounds would
this be appealed then? Unclear signage? The letter literally
says in “Tottenham Court Road” but their argument would be it
actually is TCR.
I can have a go at writing a draft and posting it here before I
appeal
#Post#: 7496--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden: Using a route restricted to certain vehicles local
buses and cycles only Tottenham Court Road
DIR By: iispartan
Date: October 15, 2023, 5:16 pm
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My first draft for appeal below, appreciate any feedback:
Dear sir/madam,
I’m appealing the PCN on the grounds that the council have
failed to sufficiently specify the place where the alleged
contravention occurred. The PCN states that the incident took
place in “Tottenham Court Road W1” - a road that stretches for
approximately 1.2km. In the case of Young vs Day, 1959 EWHC 1,
commentary from Mr Justice Salmon highlighted the need to
specify the exact location of the road under Road Traffic Act,
1930 s. 21, especially in the case of a long London road. He
used the example of how “Oxford Street” would not be sufficient
enough when specifying a place in London. This would equally
apply when merely stating “Tottenham Court Road” as has been
done in this case.
More recently, in the case of Commercial Plant Services Ltd vs
London Borough of Camden, 2023 it was found that location of the
alleged contravention is not sufficiently specified, especially
given that in the Camden (Prescribed Routes) (No5) (Part 2)
Traffic Order 2020 there are seven different locations along
Tottenham Court Road where the alleged contravention could have
taken place. As such, the appeal was upheld.
Therefore, this PCN should be cancelled.
Regards
#Post#: 7586--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden: Using a route restricted to certain vehicles local
buses and cycles only Tottenham Court Road
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 16, 2023, 6:24 pm
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That's the best draft I've seen from a new member in a long
time!
Send it off and let's see what they say.
#Post#: 8869--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden: Using a route restricted to certain vehicles local
buses and cycles only Tottenham Court Road
DIR By: iispartan
Date: November 1, 2023, 3:34 am
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Councils response:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/h9kxW6y
They’ve allowed my appeal but not for the reasons intended. A
bit strange but I’ll take it. Thanks for your help.
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