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#Post#: 78440--------------------------------------------------
NIP think its due today but they told me 17th August
DIR By: sunflower888
Date: June 27, 2025, 4:49 am
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Hi I received what appears to be a standard NIP reminder (didnt
get the first letter dated 7th May) 30th May and say i was 35mph
in a 30mph zone (which is going down a steep hill) and I think a
manual van was lying in wait. Says "manned equipment", location:
A5183 Elstree Hill South, North of Sullivan Way, Elstree,
Borehamwood, Hertfordshire. Their pic of me is attached. Is
there anything on the pic i can query, the letter looks all
correct. And i did 35 yes going downhill into their speed trap
point!
Annoying.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 78454--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP think its due today but they told me 17th August
DIR By: RichardW
Date: June 27, 2025, 6:06 am
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Are you the reg keeper of the car, and is your address on V5C
correct? If not this may account for the first NIP not being
received. You must reply to the current NIP - failure to do so
invites prosecution for failure to furnish details - and 28 days
from the NIP would be normal. Once you have done this, you
could enquire as to the original NIP (if you are reg keeper and
address is correct) - it's unlikely there was a mess up and they
never actually sent the original, but you never know. 35 in a
30 should see offer of a course if you haven't done one in last
3 years. Where does 17th Aug come into it?
#Post#: 78472--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP think its due today but they told me 16th August
DIR By: sunflower888
Date: June 27, 2025, 7:10 am
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Hi, Thank you for your quick reply. No idea about the missing
letter but post in our area often ends up at the wrong houses.
Ive had others several times too. The address and details are
all correct, and I had emailed their support email about the
missing letter and they have sent it now, but in their reply
stated...
they said they have given me a few extra days but didnt say how
many, but it read as if 16th August but that does not make sense
as its well after 28 days the reply was:
"Good afternoon,
Thank you for your email.
Please find attached a copy of the original notice that was
issued to you on the 8th May 2025.
We are currently not able to extend the notice .
Please be advised that the notice needs to be complied with in
full by the 16th August 2025.
Kind Regards,
CTO "
I have responded today giving me details. Oddly they responded
as below to an email yesterday asking them if they could give me
more time or clarify what the 16th August date is about....the
reply:
"Good morning ,
Thank you for your email.
Your admission has been processed, you will shortly be issued
further paperwork with the options available to you.
With regard to the 28 day period stated in the option letter,
please note that we ask the recipient to act promptly to ensure
they are able to take advantage of the course offer, which must
usually be booked and completed within 4 months of the offence
date. As the date of the issue of option letter is dictated by
the receipt of a valid admission, the time period to complete
the course may be limited and it is therefore in the interests
of the recipient to act as soon as possible, hence this request.
It should also be noted that the course offer is not mandatory,
as it is discretionary where the eligibility criteria has been
met to be able to offer this, as an alternative to the Fixed
Penalty. If the course offer is declined or cannot be completed
for any reason, either the Fixed Penalty must be complied with
or a court hearing requested. It is a requirement of the Fixed
Penalty process that it is complied with within 28 days of the
issue of the letter outlining this option and this is being
accepted.
Kind Regards,
CTO"
NOTE: However I made no "admission" other than to being the
driver and registered owner. Their reply assumes I admit the
offence! But it may not be worth challenging as its a proper
speed trap they do manual from a van, though the camera angle of
the photo doesnt suggest it was manual but from a camera
elsewhere, which is confusing me. Normally they are sat on the
wide verge in a van laying in wait, unless they were positioned
elsewhere but that angle is also quite high unless on a post, Im
unclear. They also gave various calibration information about
this manned camera apparently.
- these two letters do not reference such dates, so I am
guessing there is another step they know about but clearly its
confusing to me as I dont but this alludes to a speed course but
I think I had one 2 or 2.5 years ago so I don't think I'll be
eligible. It actually looks like they tell me I have until 16th
August to reply, but I think thats probably whatever is next and
they mean I may have to do that next step by then im guessing,
and that something to do with the 28 days applies now, so I have
just sent my details to avoid further issues, and confirmed yes
I am the registered keeper, etc. (Sorry it was 16th not 17th
August).
If Ive done the course within the 3 years is it then only a fine
and points only? hmm.
That is such a speed trap of a down hill section and its very
very wide road if you look at google. See attached. At times
they have a van sat there on the wide verge waiting to catch
people, because naturally the car increases speed on such a
downward incline which means that unless you brake as you drive
down you will go over 30 mph, which is what to me. Of course
they will argue its a 30mph road. Is there anything i can do or
am i just simple trapped. But this one is just a pure revenue
earner, I'm sure it must be one of those top camera earners in
the region for Hertfordshire police when they need more cash!
You have to sit on the brakes as you go forward because the
angle of the hill is so steep it pushes the car over 30mph
easily.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 78475--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP think its due today but they told me 17th August
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: June 27, 2025, 7:22 am
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--- Quote ---
> NOTE: However I made no "admission" other than to being the
driver and registered owner. Their reply assumes I admit the
offence!
--- End Quote ---
No it doesn't. Leaving aside the fact that there is no such
thing as a "registered owner", they know you are the registered
keeper because they have obtained your details from the DVLA.
Until you responded they did not know who was driving. Now they
do and so can make their offers to you.
If you deny the offence you will face prosecution in court and
you can defend the charge there.
From what you say, the only realistic defence you have is that a
NIP was not served on you within 14 days of the offence. If you
use that defence, the police will prove it was posted in time
and you will have to prove that it was not received.
#Post#: 78484--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP think its due today but they told me 17th August
DIR By: BertB
Date: June 27, 2025, 7:42 am
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I would say that outside of the confusion they have caused with
their wording, the 16th August would refer to the deadline to
complete a speed awareness course. Not applicable by the sounds
of it in this instance.
You've named the driver now, so should probably keep an eye out
for a COFP. If not received within the next 3/4 weeks I would
contact them again.
#Post#: 78502--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP think its due today but they told me 17th August
DIR By: sunflower888
Date: June 27, 2025, 8:56 am
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What is COFP?
Is that a realistic defence? Not receiving the letter? Then did
send a copy.
I am not denying it was me, but that spot is simple speed trap I
just forgot that day they sent another photo of my car with
clear reg and its at 25 mph!
What do I get points and a fine? not sure its worth battling i
did it, but its a pure speed trap and when you are going down a
steep hill.
#Post#: 78521--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP think its due today but they told me 17th August
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: June 27, 2025, 9:28 am
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--- Quote from: sunflower888 link ---
>
> What is COFP?
>
--- End Quote ---
Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty - 3 points £100.
--- Quote from: sunflower888 link ---
>
> Is that a realistic defence? Not receiving the letter? Then
did send a copy.
>
--- End Quote ---
The burden on proof is on you to rebut the presumption of
delivery. Which can be rather difficult.
--- Quote from: sunflower888 link ---
>
> I am not denying it was me, but that spot is simple speed trap
I just forgot that day they sent another photo of my car with
clear reg and its at 25 mph!
>
> What do I get points and a fine? not sure its worth battling i
did it, but its a pure speed trap and when you are going down a
steep hill.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's the peak speed that matters. Whilst many will agree with
you, unfortunately it's not a defence to breaking the law.
#Post#: 78524--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP think its due today but they told me 17th August
DIR By: 666
Date: June 27, 2025, 9:33 am
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--- Quote from: sunflower888 link ---
>
> What is COFP?
>
> Is that a realistic defence? Not receiving the letter? Then
did send a copy.
>
> I am not denying it was me, but that spot is simple speed trap
I just forgot that day they sent another photo of my car with
clear reg and its at 25 mph!
>
> What do I get points and a fine? not sure its worth battling i
did it, but its a pure speed trap and when you are going down a
steep hill.
>
--- End Quote ---
COFP = Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty. £100 and three
points.
The law requires a NIP to be served to the Registered Keeper
within 14 days of the offence. If it is not, then a prosecution
should fail.
However, the law also presumes that the NIP is delivered two
working days after posting, unless the contrary is proved. The
police will provide evidence that it was posted in time: do you
have any evidence that it was not received? That is notoriously
difficult.
#Post#: 78552--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP think its due today but they told me 17th August
DIR By: sunflower888
Date: June 27, 2025, 11:11 am
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Not sure how you could do that unless you were out of the
country or it went to a neighbour and they then gave it to you
late. My first letter has just not arrived, no idea where it is,
so I cannot prove anything non-delivery if it is not tracked can
I?
Wow £100 AND 3 points gosh a lot of money. Are there any grounds
of hardship considered?
#Post#: 78556--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP think its due today but they told me 17th August
DIR By: sunflower888
Date: June 27, 2025, 11:29 am
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Just seeing if by chance i can see any admin errors as it is a
speed trap on the sharp descent which causes your speed to go
up!
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