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#Post#: 77717--------------------------------------------------
Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: June 23, 2025, 7:48 am
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Just over a week ago, I received a Notice to Owner (NTO) for
contravention code 46: “Stopped where prohibited (on a red route
or clearway),” but I never received a Penalty Charge Notice
(PCN) beforehand.
When I returned to my vehicle, two Civil Enforcement Officers
(CEOs) were standing nearby, but there was no PCN attached to
the vehicle.
As I approached, one of the CEOs attempted to stop me, saying a
ticket had already been issued and that I needed to wait.
Meanwhile, the other officer seemed to be quickly inputting
details into her handheld device. From what I could see, no
ticket had been printed at that point.
I didn’t engage and simply got in the car and drove off, as I’ve
always understood that a PCN must either be fixed to the vehicle
or handed to the driver for it to be considered properly served.
Their evidence shows my vehicle stationary from the front and
back (3 minutes apart) without any PCN attached.
Notice to Owner linked below:
Notice to Owner
HTML https://photos.app.goo.gl/LTrCGUXS5L7trF8Z7
really hope someone can help?
#Post#: 77737--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 23, 2025, 9:00 am
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You've deleted the PCN no. so we can't access their photos.
Pl reinstate the PCN no.
The simple analysis goes:
You returned to the car and did not find a PCN affixed to the
vehicle;
You therefore dispute that one was served;
This is supported by your account AND (we hope) council photos,
none of which shows a PCN having been served;
Grounds of reps: Procedural impropriety.
The burden then shifts to the council to prove that a PCN was
served and to explain why, if this was the case, service has not
been recorded.
#Post#: 77743--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: June 23, 2025, 9:26 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> You've deleted the PCN no. so we can't access their photos.
>
> Pl reinstate the PCN no.
>
> The simple analysis goes:
>
> You returned to the car and did not find a PCN affixed to the
vehicle;
> You therefore dispute that one was served;
> This is supported by your account AND (we hope) council
photos, none of which shows a PCN having been served;
>
> Grounds of reps: Procedural impropriety.
>
> The burden then shifts to the council to prove that a PCN was
served and to explain why, if this was the case, service has not
been recorded.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm sorry, I thought I needed to scrub that off!
Anyway, this is it >> RG40219655
#Post#: 77772--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 23, 2025, 12:11 pm
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If they had sent you a postal PCN on the basis that you drove
away before it could be served to you or the car, then you'd be
struggling, but by serving a Notice to Owner, they've shot
themselves in the foot. For your information, the Traffic
Management Act 2004 introduced clauses to deal with drivers who
drive away before a PCN can be served,
#Post#: 77779--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 23, 2025, 12:57 pm
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Only three pics and no PCN on van.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/7N2KHjjN/read1.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/yBbfPmMj/read3.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/S4P0LxhM/read2.jpg
#Post#: 77783--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: June 23, 2025, 2:07 pm
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15 seconds apart.
#Post#: 77784--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: June 23, 2025, 2:11 pm
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> If they had sent you a postal PCN on the basis that you drove
away before it could be served to you or the car, then you'd be
struggling, but by serving a Notice to Owner, they've shot
themselves in the foot. For your information, the Traffic
Management Act 2004 introduced clauses to deal with drivers who
drive away before a PCN can be served,
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't recall them saying anything about how they allege a PCN
was served?
#Post#: 77785--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: June 23, 2025, 2:21 pm
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By the way, should they not be taking pictures after issuing a
PCN? I wonder why she did that.
I saw that it hadn't even been printed by the time I hopped back
in my Van.
Is there a scenario where they'd need to post a PCN? I mean, if
a driver is present and unwilling to take the PCN by hand, the
CEO should have been able to attach and photo it on the vehicle.
They could even photograph the PCN in the drivers hand?
#Post#: 77959--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: June 24, 2025, 11:48 am
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So i simply select reason: "Procedural impropriety" with no need
to say anything else?
#Post#: 81704--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice To Owner without having Received a PCN first
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: July 19, 2025, 10:02 am
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Just received a notice of rejection :(
Would really appreciate some expert guidance. They seem to just
ignore our last request for evidence and hold to their position.
I must say, I'm quite irritated that they should say "I can
assure you, a Penalty Charge Notice was affixed to the vehicle.
However it is possible it was removed by someone or or had blown
off"
This is total rubbish. I returned to the vehicle as their warden
was fumbling about with her ticket machine. She had not printed
it before I drove off.
This council use sticky slips that would not blow off. And if it
had, then why didn't she just pick it up and take the picture.
Why didn't she state that in her notes. If someone took it off,
did they take it off in front of her or after she had left. If
it was after she left, well then she would have had a picture of
it on the vehicle before she left. If it was in front of her,
again, I'm sure she would have noted it.
Link to Photos
HTML https://photos.app.goo.gl/GVdnide5MopVEmH67
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