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#Post#: 7155--------------------------------------------------
Merton PCN - 53J - driving in pedestrian zone (school streets) -
Monkleigh Road
DIR By: JohnWick
Date: October 10, 2023, 6:42 pm
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Hi there
Caught on CCTV driving in a school zone on Monkleigh Road.
The signage is very hard to read on the signs directly outside
the entrance to Monkleigh Road.
There is a more visible sign on the approach but I still think
it is not clear. The font is quite small and it is on a bus
stop. It's easily blocked by a bus if stopped next to it, and it
looks like it relates to the bus stop given the placement.
Secondly, the signs seem to indicate that the zone restriction
only applies during 'school term time' only (note this is
visible on the additional images/videos I provided on Imgur;
clearly the signs have been changed/added to since the Street
View photos were taken in August '22). How are we meant to know
when 'school term time' applies?! Does that not differ from
school to school?
Imgur contains:
* PCN letter received from Merton Council
* Photo of approach, and the facing Monkleigh Road itself
showing the warning signs
* Video of approach to Monkleigh Road - 1 taken from pavement,
one from the road
HTML https://imgur.com/a/NrcXFNc
Street View:
* Entrance to Monkleigh Road (note if you go one picture further
to the right then the one of the images is a couple of years
older and so the warning signs aren't there):
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/8RkcANGi71xZCv9B8
* Approach to Monkleigh Road with warning sign affixed to
lamppost at bus stop:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/E34qYWdbvJie1VXB7
* Note the signs appear to have changed since the Street View
images were taken; see additional images of them on the Imgur
link above
Thanks very much for any help anyone can offer.
#Post#: 7162--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merton PCN - 53J - driving in pedestrian zone (school
streets) - Monkleigh Road
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 10, 2023, 7:38 pm
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The entry signs are very prominent from the front, but not if
one approaches via a left turn. The yellow advance sign is not,
as far as I am aware, a lawful traffic sign, but see what the
others say.
#Post#: 7354--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merton PCN - 53J - driving in pedestrian zone (school
streets) - Monkleigh Road
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 13, 2023, 11:53 am
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Video:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivVpxzXzByA
There are quite a few things going on here, the first and most
obvious point is that "School term time" is not a permitted
expression according to the TSRGD 2016 (I did actually check)
and the signage therefore fails the LATOR 18 test.
It's handy you've made a couple of videos as we can use them to
prove if they actually look at the representations or not.
I will PM you some links to put in the representation, I've
re-uploaded your videos to youtube and if you give them the
links I'll PM you, we can use the view count to confirm whether
they've looked at them or not (obviously do not click on the
links I PM you as we want the view count to remain at zero). If
they don't click on them, we can then prove they've failed to
consider all of the evidence. If they say in the rejection that
they've considered all the evidence, we've got them for lying as
well.
[indent]
Dear London Borough of Merton,
I challenge liability for PCN MT87232790 on the basis that the
alleged contravention did not occur.
The signs directly at the entrance to Monkleigh Road are very
hard to read and they include unauthorised wording, there is
nothing in the Traffic Signs Regulations 2016 which authorises a
plate which states "School term time", possibly because the
driving test does not include a questionnaire as to when school
term times are.
There is a sign on the approach to the junction but this sign is
not an advance warning sign authorised by Schedule 12 to the
Traffic Signs Regulations and it appears to be another
unauthorised sign of the authority's own invention.
On the whole the sign does not therefore discharge the
authority's duties under regulation 18 of The Local Authorities'
Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996,
to illustrate this point I am providing two videos which
illustrate my approach to the road, you can view these are LINK1
and LINK2
In light of the above the alleged contravention did not occur
and the PCN must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
Send that online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
In the meantime I've also requested the traffic order.
#Post#: 7389--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merton PCN - 53J - driving in pedestrian zone (school
streets) - Monkleigh Road
DIR By: JohnWick
Date: October 13, 2023, 6:21 pm
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Thank you so much for your help.
I've submitted the appeal as suggested, using the two links
provided separately.
Could you elaborate on what you meant by you've 'requested the
traffic order' please? I'm not sure what exactly that means, or
the significance of it.
#Post#: 7416--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merton PCN - 53J - driving in pedestrian zone (school
streets) - Monkleigh Road
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 14, 2023, 6:27 am
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--- Quote from: JohnWick link ---
>
> Could you elaborate on what you meant by you've 'requested the
traffic order' please? I'm not sure what exactly that means, or
the significance of it.
>
--- End Quote ---
The council can't just stick some signs up, they need to legally
create a pedestrian zone by enacting a local bylaw known as a
traffic management order. Sometimes the order doesn't match the
signs, and in the event of a discrepancy the order takes
precedence over the signs. Most of the time the traffic order is
fine, but in a significant minority of cases we see the traffic
order says something different to the signs, or says the
restriction is elsewhere, sometimes the traffic order even
creates a restriction in a place that doesn't physically exist.
It is therefore always worth checking, just in case something
turns up. We've won many cases where the traffic order simply
doesn't create the restriction that the council thinks it
creates.
#Post#: 8535--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merton PCN - 53J - driving in pedestrian zone (school
streets) - Monkleigh Road
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 27, 2023, 11:11 am
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Here is The Merton (Pedestrian and Cycle Zone) (Hillcross
Primary School) (No. 2) Traffic Order 2022
HTML https://www.merton.gov.uk/system/files/TMO%202022-93%20The%20Merton%20%28Pedestrian%20and%20Cycle%20Zone%29%20%28Hillcross%20Primary%20School%29%20%28No.%202%29%20Traffic%20Order%202022.pdf.
Let us know when you get a response from the council.
#Post#: 9787--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merton PCN - 53J - driving in pedestrian zone (school
streets) - Monkleigh Road
DIR By: JohnWick
Date: November 10, 2023, 12:29 pm
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Thank you for taking the time to explain & for sharing the
Traffic Order itself.
I've still not heard anything back from Merton Council.
I'm assuming this is not unusual.
#Post#: 14463--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merton PCN - 53J - driving in pedestrian zone (school
streets) - Monkleigh Road
DIR By: JohnWick
Date: January 28, 2024, 12:41 pm
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Hi there
I received a Notice of Rejection from Merton this week. See the
letter here:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/mLpw3UG
What do you think? Is there any reasonable grounds to appeal
from here?
I believe I have until 6th February to either pay the £65 fee or
appeal to the parking adjudicator, before a higher fee would be
due.
Confirming I have at no point clicked on the YouTube links
provided privately, and included in my appeal to Merton.
Thanks in advance for your advice.
#Post#: 14492--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merton PCN - 53J - driving in pedestrian zone (school
streets) - Monkleigh Road
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 28, 2024, 5:40 pm
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Well the notice of rejection is full of mistakes, it gives the
28 days period from the date of the notice rather than the date
of service, and we'd usually expect a failure of that sort to be
enough on its own to win the case.
And there's still the issue of the signage being inadequate, I'd
give a case like this at least an 80% chance of success though
of course there is no absolute certainty as to the outcome.
You therefore need to decide whether you wish to carry on.
#Post#: 14517--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merton PCN - 53J - driving in pedestrian zone (school
streets) - Monkleigh Road
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: January 29, 2024, 5:45 am
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Vive leur incompétence! ::)
I agree with cp8759. This outfit regularly mess up their
evidence in any case.
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