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       #Post#: 76595--------------------------------------------------
       Southwark 50r - prohibited right turn - Lower Road Junction
       Neptune Street
   DIR By: Bliss
       Date: June 15, 2025, 2:23 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi all,
       Hope you can help me. Just got back from abroad and was
       surprised to receive this in the post. It says online I can
       still pay £80 by Tuesday 17th June 2025. I see that
       [member=24]Hippocrates[/member] has beaten this PCN before here
       but I'm not sure how -
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/southwark-50r-contravention-prohibited-right-turn/
       I haven't driven in London in years but this to me seems like a
       very chaotic junction. I was coming from across - Ann moss way.
       I looked through my dashcam footage (bear in mind the dashcam
       footage is brighter than real life and positioned higher on the
       windscreen). It's very dark a 23.13pm at night. Approaching the
       junction - the No right turn sign on the right side gets blocked
       by 3 other signs and trees and then I had to observe cyclists
       both ways. The sign also gets blocked by high vehicles. After I
       entered I had to avoid the bus lane. Then I looked right to read
       the Neptune street Controlled Sign to make sure I could enter so
       missed the no right turn sign on the left. I did briefly glimpse
       at it and thought it was no right turn for buses up ahead later.
       In the end, after entering I decided to just do a 3 point turn
       and went out again. I have attached screenshots from my dashcam
       as well as the signage is slightly different to google street
       view.
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/FclO8TE.jpeg
       Google Street View:
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/XZ4pYV5suL1LZJ9L9
       Thank you in advance for your help. Happy to buy you coffee!
       Many thanks!
       #Post#: 76596--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southwark 50r - prohibited right turn - Lower Road Junction
       Neptune Street
   DIR By: Bliss
       Date: June 15, 2025, 2:27 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/irw3rLy.jpeg
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/1Zh9d7h.jpeg
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/Is0jyue.jpeg
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/NkR7Cmc.jpeg
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/bp52YOX.jpeg
       #Post#: 76614--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southwark 50r - prohibited right turn - Lower Road Junction
       Neptune Street
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: June 15, 2025, 5:19 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > I see that [member=24]Hippocrates[/member] has beaten this PCN
       before here but I'm not sure how
       --- End Quote ---
       The London Tribunals case number isn't on that link. but it is a
       'technical' appeal based on council mismanagement of the
       enforcement process, and in this case, a fatal error of content
       in a PCN. However, this may have been corrected now, so please
       post all sides of the PCN so it can be checked.
       I don't think you have any strong appeal argument based on
       signage, because there are two signs, and you say in your
       narrative that you did see one of them.
       I'm puzzled that you have posted extracts from your dashcam
       showing the signage when exiting Neptune St. You turned right
       into Neptune Street, so they are surely irrelevant. Have you got
       dashcam content of your approach and right-turn ?
       #Post#: 76620--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southwark 50r - prohibited right turn - Lower Road Junction
       Neptune Street
   DIR By: Bliss
       Date: June 15, 2025, 6:16 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hiya, thanks for the prompt reply! Apologies I should've been
       clearer.
       The dashcam from top to bottom is me from the start - exiting
       Ann moss way > turning left into Lower road > then Right into
       Neptune Road.
       If the Left side No right turn sign had remained on the Bus lane
       sign like it's shown on Google Street View I would've
       immediately understood and not turned right. But as you can see
       when I exit ann moss way > the Right Side no right turn sign on
       Lower junction road are had to see and easily obscured by vans,
       especially at 11pm at night.
       But the way that they have moved the Left side No Right turn
       sign at the junction separated by a bus lane - I assumed it was
       for the later junction ahead or related to the buses. As I was
       already looking into Neptune Street to read the sign whether I
       can enter the controlled zone sign. In the end I wasn't sure so
       as soon as I entered Neptune street I did a 3 point turn and
       came back out again.
       Would it be worth appealing? Or would that make me miss out on
       paying the £80 half price amount?
       Here are the rest of the PCN:
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/X6lJqjo.jpeg
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/BlXkrB8.jpeg
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/OBGtEuO.jpeg
       Many thanks!
       #Post#: 76828--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southwark 50r - prohibited right turn - Lower Road Junction
       Neptune Street
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: June 17, 2025, 5:57 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       PM received. Say they cannot issue a charge certificate 28 days
       from the date of the notice.
       Also, please screenshot their webpage before and after you make
       a representation.
       #Post#: 80355--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southwark 50r - prohibited right turn - Lower Road Junction
       Neptune Street
   DIR By: Bliss
       Date: July 9, 2025, 6:52 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
       >
       > PM received. Say they cannot issue a charge certificate 28
       days from the date of the notice.
       >
       > Also, please screenshot their webpage before and after you
       make a representation.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Just received a reply that they've rejected my Representation.
       It's just a standard letter - doesn't really counter any of the
       defences I put forth. Not sure how to proceed from here? Thank
       you.
       #Post#: 80356--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southwark 50r - prohibited right turn - Lower Road Junction
       Neptune Street
   DIR By: John U.K.
       Date: July 10, 2025, 1:38 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Bliss link ---
       >
       >
       > Just received a reply that they've rejected my Representation.
       It's just a standard letter - doesn't really counter any of the
       defences I put forth. Not sure how to proceed from here? Thank
       you.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Please post up your reps and the NoR. Also before and after
       screenshots as requested by @Hippocrates.
       #Post#: 81630--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southwark 50r - prohibited right turn - Lower Road Junction
       Neptune Street
   DIR By: Bliss
       Date: July 18, 2025, 2:48 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
       >
       > PM received. Say they cannot issue a charge certificate 28
       days from the date of the notice.
       >
       > Also, please screenshot their webpage before and after you
       make a representation.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Hiya, sorry it's the first time I've ever had to do this. Here
       are the details as requested. Thank you in advance.
       Webpage before representation:
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UT_ZVAiGaUpXGJQ5eYaEKH-j_ixTABmJ/view?usp=drive_link
       Webpage After rep:
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mwtfuYIy2_CC6iSUL2WVTMwHmirXKrLR/view?usp=drive_link
       Challenge and Rep:
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bbAkvZaXv6QpDtTqEM-Mjb0IrEiMkAIK/view?usp=drive_link
       Council's Response to keeper:
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XAocnOtvSsxjvlHOHIolP8lTZ_-TMFSN/view?usp=drive_link
       And now after the rep and council's response on 7th July - the
       webpage says: "The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge
       Notice will increase to £240.00 on Tue, 29 Jul 2025. Please pay
       £80.00 now."
       Thank you again
       #Post#: 81686--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southwark 50r - prohibited right turn - Lower Road Junction
       Neptune Street
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: July 19, 2025, 6:58 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I suggest Tribunal time.
       #Post#: 81717--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southwark 50r - prohibited right turn - Lower Road Junction
       Neptune Street
   DIR By: Bliss
       Date: July 19, 2025, 12:25 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
       >
       > I suggest Tribunal time.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I see - can i ask what percentage chance i will win a tribunal?
       I can't really afford to pay £240 if i lose. And i don't really
       understand how to defend in terms of the charge certificate
       though. Does that error in the pcn makes it completely  invalid?
       Ive read previous posts on the topic but still not really clear
       on the matter. Is there any article/law you could point me to so
       i can better defend myself in the tribunal?
       Thank you.
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