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#Post#: 76452--------------------------------------------------
Police pushing for more info regarding speeding ticket.
DIR By: dlc223
Date: June 14, 2025, 8:04 am
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Hi All I need some advice, I received a NIP/request for drivers
details in relation to a speeding ticket from a speed camera.
I believe that it was something like 36 in a 30. However I was
aware that this was going to come through as my car was listed
for sale at this time and the driver was the person test driving
my vehicle with me.
I advised him that I would most likely receive a NIP and asked
to confirm his details using his drivers license. He had no ID
on him he said but gave me a name and an address. I had no
alternative but to take this.
When I receive the NIP I responded with the details that I had
been given and explained the situation. My reply was as
followed,
Dear Sirs,
I am writing in response to the NIP regarding the speeding
offence involved with vehicle XXX. I would like to clarify that
i was not the driver at the time of the incident.
I have been attempting to sell my vehicle and had arranged a
viewing on 28/02/25. He requested that i pick him up to show him
the car. At approximately 8pm that evening i met with him, he
asked to take the car for a test drive. He presented temporary
insurance on his phone and based on this i agreed to accompany
him on a test drive.
During the drive he proceeded along the XXXXXXX, where he was
caught by a speed camera. As i regularly drive this route i
informed him that i would likely receive a NIP and requested his
details. He hastily provided his name and address and claimed
to have left his driving license at home and told me to trust
him.
I have tried, however been unable to verify the accuracy of the
details supplied to me as this was a strange I had met through
Facebook marketplace for the first time. I have provided you
with the details given to me in line with section 172 of the
road traffic act 1988.
I hope this information assists in resolving the matter.
Anyway about 3 days ago i received the attached in the post. Im
not sure what to do with this, I have given them everything I
can, to be honest its like they did not read the letter
attached. I have nothing more to give them, so just wondering
the best way to proceed.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 76453--------------------------------------------------
Re: Police pushing for more info regarding speeding ticket.
DIR By: dlc223
Date: June 14, 2025, 8:07 am
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I forgot to mention the original offence date was 28/02/25
#Post#: 76454--------------------------------------------------
Re: Police pushing for more info regarding speeding ticket.
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: June 14, 2025, 8:37 am
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I think you can look forward to being prosecuted for "failing to
provide driver's details".
However, there is a precedent which was heard in the High Court
in 2011 where the circumstances were almost identical to yours:
HTML https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff73060d03e7f57ea9577#:~:text=Ruling,police%2C%20despite%20their%20best%20efforts.
In brief, the court found that the responsibility to exercise
"reasonable diligence" when trying to discover who was driving
only begins when you receive the request from the police. You
are not expected to know at all times who was driving your
vehicle and it cannot be part of the case against you that you
failed to get and confirm the driver's full details before then.
What you will have to do is to convince the court that since
receiving the request, you have done all you could to try to
identify the driver, but without success.
What precisely have you done to try to trace this person?
#Post#: 76466--------------------------------------------------
Re: Police pushing for more info regarding speeding ticket.
DIR By: mdann52
Date: June 14, 2025, 11:09 am
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As mentioned in the letter, you can expect the police to do
searches into the insurance used by the driver at the time, and
they'll seek to prosecute you for permitting use without
insurance unless you can provide evidence they were insured, if
the Motor Insurance Bureau shows no policy was held
This offence can be dual-charged with Failure to Furnish,
meaning that even if you defend that you may still be convicted
of insurance offences.
#Post#: 76474--------------------------------------------------
Re: Police pushing for more info regarding speeding ticket.
DIR By: The Slithy Tove
Date: June 14, 2025, 12:55 pm
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--- Quote from: dlc223 link ---
> this was a stranger I had met through Facebook marketplace for
the first time.
--- End Quote ---
As it seems the details he gave could well have been fictitious,
did you provide the person's Facebook handle/name? It may be
possible for the police to trace them through that (though no
guarantee as that's probably made up, too). Regardless of that,
and whether it would absolve you of the Failing to Furnish
accusation, there is still the matter of permitting to drive
uninsured, unless you have a policy that allows any driver
(unlikely).
#Post#: 76521--------------------------------------------------
Re: Police pushing for more info regarding speeding ticket.
DIR By: Freecall
Date: June 15, 2025, 3:14 am
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--- Quote from: dlc223 link ---
>
>
> I have tried, however been unable to verify the accuracy of
the details supplied to me as this was a strange I had met
through Facebook marketplace for the first time.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
As a start, at least you have the Facebook paper-trail.
If this is going to be your defence, I would provide this to the
police up-front.
Your messages will effectively be time-stamped in themselves and
will contain your discussions with the prospective driver
including whatever arrangements and times your agreed to meet
for the test drive.
#Post#: 76556--------------------------------------------------
Re: Police pushing for more info regarding speeding ticket.
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: June 15, 2025, 7:55 am
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The police appear to be treating this as a "my dog ate my
homework" - although in this case, the dog does not appear to be
an "international driver". They have sent you a stock "my
[foreign] dog ate my homework" letter.
The letter in and of itself, and any purported demands within,
have no standing in law. In effect it merely restates the
original requirement, and offers an opportunity to fill in any
gaps.
As a matter of law, subject to any applicable defences, you
either complied with the s. 172 requirement or you didn't.
The applicable defences rely on having ticked the relevant
boxes, and the court believing you (on the balance of
probabilities).
As the person keeping the vehicle you obligation was to provide
the driver's details as required by the notice.
Where it starts to make my head hurt, is that you don't seem to
believe that the details provided were correct (and you have
told the police as much). The police have been "unable to trace
him" - which might merely indicate that they send a notice which
was ignored, or that they have exercised much diligence and can
comprehensively show that nobody of that name has ever lived at
that address. The first question becomes whether or not the
prosecution can prove that the information you provided was
incorrect. The second question is to what standard that can or
needs to be proven.
If the court finds that you did not provide the correct driver's
details, then the statutory defences come into play. The
statutory defences are that you provided all the information
that was in your power to give, and which might lead to the
driver's identification and that you do not know who was driving
and that you could not identify the driver with reasonable
diligence (or that it was not reasonably practicable to provide
the information).
As regards, providing "any information that is within your power
to give...", it would be for the prosecution to prove that you
had further relevant information that you failed to provide.
Such as have met through Facebook marketplace, and presumably
having access to his Facebook username and profile, but failing
to provide such information in your s. 172 response.
A court might also find it unusual for two strangers to arrange
to meet with a view to one selling a car to the other, without
exchanging names and phone numbers. Or notice that
disproportionate number of unidentified people caught speeding
while test-driving a car that they then decided not to buy.
Fortunately, the police appear to be giving you a second chance
to provide the "information within your power to give..."
#Post#: 76621--------------------------------------------------
Re: Police pushing for more info regarding speeding ticket.
DIR By: itsnotmwyouno
Date: June 15, 2025, 7:44 pm
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with facebook you can make audio and video calls via Messenger,
so while a phone number is useful, a physical call can be made
via Messenger and therefore many would accept it as a source of
contact.
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