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#Post#: 76378--------------------------------------------------
Barking&Dagenham PCN - Bus Lane crossed for less than 3 sec
and 3 meters.
DIR By: Sandymarton
Date: June 13, 2025, 8:55 am
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Hi, I received a pcn from Barking and Daghenam Council, for
crossing into a bus lane. From the images and video, it's clear
I only cross into the bus lane at the very end to turn left,
it's crossed for less than 3 seconds and probably less than 4
meters before the lane itself ends. I wrote the following
challenge, is it ok? if they reject what should I do, do I have
grounds to make an appeal or I pay and that's it? thank you very
much for your time and suggestions. Driving in London has become
almost impossible.
Re: PCN BZ81922532 | VRM HN09 YZU | Ripple Road | 06/06/2025
16:20
I contest this PCN because CCTV stills show my vehicle only
entered the bus lane for under three seconds (one to two
car-lengths) to execute a permitted left turn via the dashed
junction break. There is no evidence of sustained travel in the
bus lane. Such minimal incursion is de minimis and too trivial
for enforcement. Additionally, advance signage was obscured by
foliage and road markings were so worn they failed TSRGD
visibility standards. The PCN also omits the relevant Traffic
Regulation Order reference.
I therefore request cancellation of PCN BZ81922532. If you
decline, please supply the TRO schedule/map, dates of signage
and marking maintenance, and issue a formal Notice of Rejection
within 56 days to enable my appeal.
Yours faithfully,
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 76400--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking&Dagenham PCN - Bus Lane crossed for less than 3
sec and 3 meters.
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: June 13, 2025, 10:26 am
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We need to see the video
#Post#: 76404--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking&Dagenham PCN - Bus Lane crossed for less than 3
sec and 3 meters.
DIR By: Sandymarton
Date: June 13, 2025, 10:47 am
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--- Quote from: Pastmybest link ---
>
> We need to see the video
>
--- End Quote ---
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 76409--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking&Dagenham PCN - Bus Lane crossed for less than 3
sec and 3 meters.
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 13, 2025, 11:34 am
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Video doesn't help you. Best chance will be PCN/website
wording/process and possibly camera authorisation.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/x8Pym1y2/b-ezgif-com-video-to-gif-converter.gif<br
/>
#Post#: 76428--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking&Dagenham PCN - Bus Lane crossed for less than 3
sec and 3 meters.
DIR By: roythebus
Date: June 13, 2025, 5:58 pm
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At least 4 car lengths, the average car being about 3.5m long.
#Post#: 76458--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking&Dagenham PCN - Bus Lane crossed for less than 3
sec and 3 meters.
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: June 14, 2025, 9:54 am
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I have won several against B and D because they mess up their
evidence at the Tribunal stage. This is winnable.
#Post#: 76464--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking&Dagenham PCN - Bus Lane crossed for less than 3
sec and 3 meters.
DIR By: Sandymarton
Date: June 14, 2025, 10:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> I have won several against B and D because they mess up their
evidence at the Tribunal stage. This is winnable.
>
--- End Quote ---
thanks, How can I contact you in case they reject the challenge
I submitted?
#Post#: 76465--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking&Dagenham PCN - Bus Lane crossed for less than 3
sec and 3 meters.
DIR By: Sandymarton
Date: June 14, 2025, 10:59 am
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--- Quote from: roythebus link ---
>
> At least 4 car lengths, the average car being about 3.5m long.
>
--- End Quote ---
the use of bus lane is for under 3 seconds and at the very end,
I didn't go all the way, this should fall under the "de
minimis"principal, too minimal to enforce.
De Minimis Incursion:Many adjudicators accept that a momentary
crossing (under three seconds, one or two car-lengths) purely to
turn left is too trivial to enforce. Citing the “de minimis”
principle (Lambeth LBC v Parr [2013])
#Post#: 76467--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking&Dagenham PCN - Bus Lane crossed for less than 3
sec and 3 meters.
DIR By: mdann52
Date: June 14, 2025, 11:21 am
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--- Quote from: Sandymarton link ---
>
> [quote author=roythebus link=topic=6793.msg76428#msg76428
date=1749855506]
> At least 4 car lengths, the average car being about 3.5m long.
>
--- End Quote ---
the use of bus lane is for under 3 seconds and at the very end,
I didn't go all the way, this should fall under the "de
minimis"principal, too minimal to enforce.
De Minimis Incursion:Many adjudicators accept that a momentary
crossing (under three seconds, one or two car-lengths) purely to
turn left is too trivial to enforce. Citing the “de minimis”
principle (Lambeth LBC v Parr [2013])
[/quote]
It's more than 2 car lengths (you can tell by the parking
spaces), appears to be 4-5 seconds from when you crossed the
line to when you went off screen, and you've gained an advantage
by entering the bus lane in passing the car in front. You'll be
hard pressed to argue "de minimis"
#Post#: 76477--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barking&Dagenham PCN - Bus Lane crossed for less than 3
sec and 3 meters.
DIR By: Sandymarton
Date: June 14, 2025, 1:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
you can tell from the time stamp in the video, from when I enter
fully, it's 3 seconds or less it's not 5 seconds .
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