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#Post#: 77241--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 19, 2025, 3:17 pm
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Good that you mentioned this.
Either the representations need to be sent by your father (or by
you but in his name with his blessing) or else by you with a
separate confirmation of his approval.
Which option does he prefer?
#Post#: 77464--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MELBE
Date: June 20, 2025, 8:30 pm
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hi mr chips,
according to the pcn the owner is responsible in first instance,
hence my father will be the one making the representations. He
agrees to help
Could you please kindly help me, thank you
#Post#: 77724--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MELBE
Date: June 23, 2025, 8:01 am
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--- Quote from: MrChips link ---
>
> I'm happy to draft something for you along the lines of my
previous post. Might be a few days though but won't miss the
deadline.
>
--- End Quote ---
Please help me as deadline is today
#Post#: 77758--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 23, 2025, 10:53 am
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Hi - thanks for the prompt. Too many things going on and I lost
track of time!
I'll draft something asap. Are you available this evening to
submit? I'll draft as if from your father.
#Post#: 77766--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MELBE
Date: June 23, 2025, 11:40 am
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Yep I’ll definitely submit this evening, thanks mr chips
#Post#: 77780--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 23, 2025, 12:58 pm
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I would focus on the incursion of vehicles from the left.
As a learner driver I was driving cautiously, including leaving
an extended gap between myself and the car ahead. When that car
approached and exited the junction it was clear that it would
leave sufficient room for me to enter and exit without issue.
Unfortunately, two vehicles came from the left, the first one a
car which took my exit space, although still in motion, and next
came a GIG motorcyclist which caused me to stop. I submit that
both were required to cede priority to me by virtue of the road
markings at this junction*, something which is hammered home to
me by my instructor.
I find it hard to understand that the law is holding me liable
for the unlawful actions of other motorists.
* - Give way marking
7. The requirements conveyed to vehicular traffic on roads by a
road marking provided for at item 3 of the sign table in Part 6
of this Schedule [which applies to traffic in the side road]
are—
(a)except as provided in paragraphs (b) to (d), that no vehicle
may proceed past the transverse line which is the nearer to the
major road into that road in a manner or at a time likely to
endanger the driver of, or any passenger in, a vehicle on the
major road or to cause the driver of such a vehicle to change
its speed or course in order to avoid an accident;
#Post#: 77786--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 23, 2025, 2:23 pm
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Had to take son to cricket training. Will have something for you
in the next hour...
#Post#: 77799--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MELBE
Date: June 23, 2025, 3:28 pm
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Ok
#Post#: 77803--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 23, 2025, 4:00 pm
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Draft for (brief) consideration and submission. I wasn't sure
if you are male or female so please correct the various
references to he/her and son/daughter as applicable before
submission.
Edit - I've updated the male/female references following your
confirmation
Dear Croydon,
Re PCN CR22642605
I would like to submit representations against this PCN on the
grounds that the contravention did not occur.
First and foremost, I should state that while I am the owner and
registered keeper of this vehicle, I was not the driver at the
time this contravention is alleged to have occurred. As I was
not present I have mostly had to rely on the video evidence
provided to formulate this response. The driver was my daughter
who only recently passed her driving test and is thus a
relatively inexperienced motorist.
A box junction contravention occurs if (and only if) a person
causes a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle
has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of
stationary vehicles. The inclusion of the words "has to" is
important and means that merely stopping in a box junction isn't
necessarily a contravention; rather the stop has to have been
necessary in the context of the traffic conditions at the time
and the manner in which the vehicle entered the box junction.
Having reviewed the video evidence, I do not believe such a
contravention has occurred.
What can be seen in the footage is that the vehicle slows to a
crawl on its approach to the box junction. As the exit road was
not clear, best practice would have been for the driver to stop
at the entrance to the box junction (and I have reminded my
daughter about this). Instead she entered at this very slow
pace which, possibly by luck more than judgement, if maintained
would have been sufficiently slow that she would have been able
to cross without having to stop in the box junction because the
red vehicle on the other side moves on only a few seconds
afterwards. The box junction length is 10.2 metres and the time
between entry and the red car moving off is 8 seconds. As such
an average speed while passing through the box junction of just
under 3 miles per hour (i.e. walking pace) would have meant no
stop was necessary.
Unfortunately, in spite of my vehicle having the right of way,
just as it entered the box junction a motorcycle waiting in the
side road moved out forcing my vehicle to stop. The motorcycle
was legally obliged to give way to my vehicle and consequently
stopping in this circumstance is no fault of the driver of my
vehicle. Once the motorcycle cleared the junction, unfortunately
my daughter stalled the car causing a delay to leaving the box
junction, but as the contravention is effectively a test of
judgement at the point of entry, and by this time the exit is
completely clear, this is of no consequence.
On this basis, I trust you will agree that there has been no
technical breach of the box junction rules and cancel the PCN.
Yours faithfully,
#Post#: 77806--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 23, 2025, 4:03 pm
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Sorry this has come through so late. Don't worry too much about
the contents as Croydon will reject it anyway. Key thing is to
submit before midnight tonight.
Make sure it's sent as if from your father.
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