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#Post#: 76267--------------------------------------------------
contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MELBE
Date: June 12, 2025, 12:44 pm
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My very 1st PCN arrived today ;D ;D ;D
Do you think guys I can walk free from this? please kindly help
me
I would like to respectfully explain the circumstances leading
to the brief moment when my vehicle came to a stop on the yellow
box junction. As shown in the CCTV footage, my car was
displaying an ‘L’ plate, as I am a recently qualified driver and
still building confidence and experience on the road.
On the day in question, traffic ahead of me appeared to be
flowing steadily, and I entered the junction in good faith,
believing there was sufficient space on the far side for my
vehicle to clear it without stopping. However, due to a brief
and unforeseen hesitation by a vehicle in front of me, I found
myself momentarily stalled within the yellow box. I immediately
took action to move forward as soon as it was safe to do so.
The CCTV footage shows that my car remained within the box for
only a few seconds and, crucially, did not obstruct any
cross-traffic or affect the flow of vehicles through the
junction. I understand the importance of the rules regarding
yellow box junctions and have taken this experience as a serious
learning moment.
Given the circumstances—including my new driver status, the
brief duration of the stop, and the fact that no obstruction
occurred—I respectfully request that you consider exercising
discretion and cancel this PCN.
Thank you for your time and understanding.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 76285--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 12, 2025, 4:04 pm
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Sorry but the video doesn't seem to exactly match your
narrative. The start of the video shows a red car very slowly
moving out of the side road to turn left. The traffic dodges
round him. At 0.05 you approach and slow down, but at 0.07 you
enter the box and continue driving into the box. At the same
time the scooter rider moves out into the box and stops there
blocking you from moving forward. However, even if he had not,
the red vehicle has stopped leaving you with no exit space. The
scooter rider moves off with you stopped in the box, and the
traffic ahead starts moving leaving you stopped for a short time
in the box. This will be when you stalled I suppose.
It's a difficult call, but I suppose you could claim that the
scooter rider rode out after you had entered the box, thus
forcing you to stop. I think the fact that there was no exit
available for you is irrelevant, because without the scooter
movement, you could have "tootled" slowly in the box until the
traffic moved on.
However see what the others say.
#Post#: 76289--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MELBE
Date: June 12, 2025, 4:25 pm
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Sorry, narrativa made by chat gpt. Maybe not that accurate.
Thank you for your help. Fact was I didn’t know what I was doing
or what to do
#Post#: 76293--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 12, 2025, 4:46 pm
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--- Quote from: MELBE link ---
>
> Sorry, narrativa made by chat gpt. Maybe not that accurate.
Thank you for your help. Fact was I didn’t know what I was doing
or what to do
>
--- End Quote ---
Oh dear ! Never use ChatGPT to write any appeal for parking or
traffic contraventions. We've already seen people fail using it.
They then come on here when rejected.
Your strongest point is probably the scooter coming across just
after you entered the box. You can claim this was unexpected as
you were on the main road, not him. There is nothing unlawful in
tootling across a YBJ where the traffi ahead has stoppedm hoping
it'll move on, but the scooter stopped you doing this.
However, you'll have to stand your ground and take them to
London Tribunals for a result the council will not give way,
they love the money too much.
#Post#: 76310--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 13, 2025, 1:46 am
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Hi Melbe, thanks for the PM.
So, I agree with Incandescent's summary. Your best (only?)
defence against the contravention itself is to justify that you
entered the box travelling at a low enough speed that you would
realistically have had a clear exit by the time you got to the
other side. But that the motorcyclist then didn't give way to
you and entered the box in front of you after you had entered
it, forcing you to stop. You then stay in the box for an
extended time due to stalling (but this is a bit of a red
herring as once the red car moves off you are no longer in
contravention and can stay in the box as long as you like!).
I've undertaken some measurements which do support this line of
argument. The box is just over 10 metres long (about 10.2
metres). The period between you entering and the red car moving
off is 8 seconds. So, you could have crossed at an average speed
of just under 1.3 metres per second (2.85 miles per hour, i.e.
walking pace).
At the point you actually stop, you had travelled 4 metres into
the box, in slightly over 3 seconds, which is consistent with
this speed.
You would have had to cover the remaining 6 metres in no more
than 5 seconds (1.2 metres per second), which is definitely
doable and consistent with your average speed up to the point
you stopped.
So, you can put together a coherent defence that by continuing
across at broadly the same average speed you were travelling
(until forced to stop by the motorcyclist who did not give way
to you as obliged to do) you would have had a clear exit by the
time you reached the other side. You can support this with
accurate measurements. You may also reference your recent
qualifying status which contributed to you not predicting the
likely actions of the motorcyclist who would have seen you
slowing down and acted on this.
However, Croydon will reject this (they want your money, and -
like all councils - are staffed by people who don't understand
the law and think any stop = contravention). I don't know if
they are a council who reoffer the discount at this point or
not. Your choice will then either be to pay up or take it to
the tribunal where you have a chance of winning (I don't know
what chance).
#Post#: 76470--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MELBE
Date: June 14, 2025, 11:44 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> However see what the others say.
>
--- End Quote ---
Are here any others... ;D
I suppose is only you willing to help though. Could you please
help me to put the right paragraph together or should I wait
another week. Deadline is on the 24th
Best regards
#Post#: 76473--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 14, 2025, 12:54 pm
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I'm happy to draft something for you along the lines of my
previous post. Might be a few days though but won't miss the
deadline.
#Post#: 76475--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 14, 2025, 1:05 pm
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I think your best bet is a more or less what you did, first a
polite ask as new driver for a first time, plus notes that the
contravention may not have occurred according to a strict
reading of the situation.
You were positioned to wait at the edge of the box so it can't
really be agued this was out of your control.
Go with Mr Chips.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/h1mjZQWY/Get-Video1-ezgif-com-video-to-gif-converter.gif
#Post#: 76488--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 14, 2025, 1:45 pm
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Give way marking
7. The requirements conveyed to vehicular traffic on roads by a
road marking provided for at item 3 of the sign table in Part 6
of this Schedule [which applies to traffic in the side road]
are—
(a)except as provided in paragraphs (b) to (d), that no vehicle
may proceed past the transverse line which is the nearer to the
major road into that road in a manner or at a time likely to
endanger the driver of, or any passenger in, a vehicle on the
major road or to cause the driver of such a vehicle to change
its speed or course in order to avoid an accident;
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/9
IMO, you entered and stopped due to the presence of vehicles
which were breaking the law!
#Post#: 77233--------------------------------------------------
Re: contravention 31J - yellow box - car stalled
DIR By: MELBE
Date: June 19, 2025, 2:29 pm
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hello again,
thank you to all of you for your comments and expertise. by
reading the pcn over again I realise a sentence under DO NOT
IGNORE THIS NOTICE
>>>IF YOU WERE NOT THE DRIVER AT THE MATERIAL TIME, DO NOT PASS
THIS PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE TO THE PERSON WHO WAS IN CONTROL OF
THE VEHICLE AT THE TIME THE ALLEGED CONTRAVENTION OCCURRED...>>>
and guess what, the pcn came on my fathers name as he owns the
vehicle, although the insurance is under my name as my father
barely touch this car (only for mechanical reasons, lol) and yep
I was :'( the driver as the incident occurred.
the good thing is that still is time to mend anything or to
follow the steps needed
please advise
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