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#Post#: 75935--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles; local
buses & cycles only - URGENT
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 10, 2025, 5:25 pm
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I was puzzled to receive this PCN but on reviewing the video I
can see that from my riding position on my motorbike, I was
unsighted by the van in front of me from seeing the only sign
about a restriction on vehicles of a certain type at this
location.
#Post#: 75936--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles; local
buses & cycles only - URGENT
DIR By: markie76
Date: June 10, 2025, 5:38 pm
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> I was puzzled to receive this PCN but on reviewing the video I
can see that from my riding position on my motorbike, I was
unsighted by the van in front of me from seeing the only sign
about a restriction on vehicles of a certain type at this
location.
>
--- End Quote ---
Good point 🏍️ - now submitted and I will update
once I hear back.
As always all your input greatly appreciated.
#Post#: 76148--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles; local
buses & cycles only - URGENT
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 12, 2025, 3:59 am
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Case Details
Case reference
Appellant
Authority
VRM
PCN Details
PCN
Contravention date
Contravention time
Contravention location
Howland Street
Penalty amount
Contravention
Referral date
Decision Date
Adjudicator
Appeal decision
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons
Mr Curland was scheduled for a personal hearing by video link on
21 May 2025 but he did not attend and the appeal therefore
proceeded in his absence. Mrs Fee Cummins attended for the
Council by video link.
This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of using a
route restricted to buses and cycles in Tottenham Court Road.
On the basis of the evidence presented on 21 May, I agreed with
Mr Curland that the signage in Tottenham Court Road was not
adequate for the restricted route.
The footage and images show a single restricted route sign in
Tottenham Court Road. The sign is attached to a post on the
left-hand side of the road. It is placed after the junction with
Howland Street and next to a pedestrian crossing area.
In my judgement, the motorist travelling along Tottenham Court
Road will not see the restricted route sign with its controlled
hours until it is too late to safely avoid using the route.
There is a blue sign at the traffic lights with a directional
arrow directing traffic to turn to the left but the PCN was not
issued for the alleged contravention of failing to drive in the
direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign. The blue sign
directional arrow is also misleading as the restricted route
beyond the lights can be used outside of controlled hours.
I did, however, adjourn the hearing on 21 May because Mrs
Cummins said that the Council had evidence of advance warning
signs of the restricted route. I decided to give the Council the
opportunity to produce photographic evidence of the signage
which Mrs Cummins said was in place.
No further evidence has been received from the Council but
London Tribunals has now received from the Council a notice
stating that the appeal is no longer contested.
I allow the appeal for the reasons set out in the adjournment
correspondence of 21 May.
#Post#: 76294--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles; local
buses & cycles only - URGENT
DIR By: markie76
Date: June 12, 2025, 5:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> Case Details
> Case reference 2250121019
> Appellant Michael Curland
> Authority London Borough of Camden
>
--- End Quote ---
Excellent find 👍
I have another appointment tomorrow and will have a good look
for these claimed 'advance warning signs of the restricted
route'. 🛑
Will also take pictures of my route/visibility if required at a
later date.
#Post#: 81578--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles; local
buses & cycles only - URGENT
DIR By: markie76
Date: July 18, 2025, 9:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Still no reply to my challenge submitted on 10 June 2025 BUT I
checked it on the Camden website and the 'outstanding' is now
showing as £160 (previously £80);
HTML https://i.ibb.co/3yJsHDZF/increase.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/3yJsHDZF
What should I do now?
#Post#: 81584--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles; local
buses & cycles only - URGENT
DIR By: disgruntchelt
Date: July 18, 2025, 10:01 am
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Did you get an acknowledgment to your representation?
#Post#: 81590--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles; local
buses & cycles only - URGENT
DIR By: markie76
Date: July 18, 2025, 10:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: disgruntchelt link ---
>
> Did you get an acknowledgment to your representation?
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, an online 'Submission successful' screen (screenshot taken)
and an email.
#Post#: 81727--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles; local
buses & cycles only - URGENT
DIR By: markie76
Date: July 19, 2025, 2:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The NOR from Camden has been located. There has been a gross
failure of the house post protocol which left it lying on the
floor behind a cupboard. The letter is dated 24 June 2025 so my
appeal has to be submitted on Tuesday.
The reduced amount was re-offered but now expired so going to
the Tribunal - which we expected.
PAGE 1;
HTML https://i.ibb.co/HfhPkqLr/nor-01.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/HfhPkqLr
PAGE 2;
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Ps76qzxB/nor-02.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/Ps76qzxB
PAGE 3;
HTML https://i.ibb.co/hx0Yjc6b/nor-03.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/hx0Yjc6b
PAGE 4;
HTML https://i.ibb.co/bgw9rk8P/nor-04.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/bgw9rk8P
PAGE 5;
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Ld5HzZrY/nor-05.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/Ld5HzZrY
and there is a Tribunal form enclosed.
** Just going to ponder over my appeal - any help appreciated **
Even thought their NOR doesn't mention the turn left arrow on
the traffic light in the picture they have included, can I use
it in my appeal?
I'v been looking at some refused Tribunal cases of which there
are 8 for this location and a couple are a bit odd;
Case: 2250131227, Adjudicator: Graeme Wallington
"Appellant states the signage was only on the left side of the
road, not on the right making it hard to read. The Appellant
drives past the restriction sign which was on the same side of
the road as her direction of travel."
Case: 2240498928, Adjudicator: Martin Hoare
"establish that it was driven in this adequately signed
pedestrian zone" ??? it's a bus gate not a pedestrian zone -
perhaps incorrectly filed.
Case: 2250210174, Adjudicator: Andrew Harman
"I was satisfied on that footage that the appellant's vehicle
stopped on passing signage. I did not doubt that the appellant
had then reversed, but this contravention occurs at the point at
which a vehicle passes signage, whatever remedial action the
driver then takes."
Case: 2240537349, Adjudicator: Edward Houghton
"The Appellant’s case is essentially that the signage indicating
the restriction was inadequate. In the light of the CCTV footage
and the site photographs I am unable to agree. Although there is
only a single sign, it is quite large and facing oncoming
traffic. Some advance warning of the bus only restriction is
given by the turn left sign mounted on the traffic lights at the
preceding junction. Although the clarity of the signage would
certainly be reinforced by carriageway markings the fact that
signage could be improved (as it often can) does not necessarily
render what is in place inadequate. As a result of what was an
oversight on the Appellant’s part the vehicle was in
contravention, and it cannot be said the PCN was issued anything
other than lawfully." - oh dear!
Case: 2250062452, Adjudicator: Henry Michael Greenslade
"The sign, on each side of the carriageway, is that prescribed
by Diagram 953 at Item 33 in Part 2 of Schedule 3 to the Traffic
Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, being a permitted
variant thereof, as indicating ‘route for use by local buses and
pedal cycles’."
- but there is only one sign why does the adjudicator state "The
sign, on each side of the carriageway,"
Case: 225010762A, Adjudicator: Michael Burke
"The Appellant...criticises the quality of the signage... The
Enforcement Authority have provided photographs of the signage
relied upon, including advanced warning signage which is
additional to legal requirements." - there is no 'advanced
warning' sign for the bus gate, just the turn left arrow on the
traffic light.
Case: 2250082788, Adjudicator: Kevin Moore
(Vehicle was on hire and the appeal seems to be about passing th
fine onto the hirer)
"Regarding the contravention itself, I am satisfied that there
is reliable evidence showing that the driver used a route
restricted to certain vehicles, namely local buses and pedal
cycles during restricted hours of 8am-7pm. There are no valid
grounds to allow the appeal."
Case: 2250133299, Adjudicator: Edward Houghton
"The CCTV footage shows the vehicle passing a round blue sign
indicating a route restricted to buses; and the site photographs
show there is a preceding sign on the traffic lights directing
vehicles to turn left. The vehicle was in contravention by
passing the sign and the PCN waslawfully issued."
- not clear which 'sign' the adjudicator is referring to.
Allowed appeals;
Case: 2240583109, Adjudicator: Sean Stanton-Dunne
"I have looked at the CCTV footage and the still images from the
Council. These show a single restricted route sign in Tottenham
Court Road. The sign is attached to a post on the left hand side
of the road. It is placed after the junction and next to a
pedestrian crossing area."
Case: 2250057339, Adjudicator: Sean Stanton-Dunne
"The footage and images show a single restricted route sign in
Tottenham Court Road. The sign is attached to a post on the
left-hand side of the road. It is placed after the junction with
Howland Street and next to a pedestrian crossing area."
Case: 2250121019, Adjudicator: Sean Stanton-Dunne
"On the basis of the evidence presented on 21 May, I agreed with
Mr Curland that the signage in Tottenham Court Road was not
adequate for the restricted route.
The footage and images show a single restricted route sign in
Tottenham Court Road. The sign is attached to a post on the
left-hand side of the road. It is placed after the junction with
Howland Street and next to a pedestrian crossing area."
Not looking good unless Sean Stanton-Dunne is assigned to your
appeal... :'(
Looking through other appeals for the other 3 bus gates on TCR -
not looking good;
There is another bus gate with a single sign while 2 have dual
signs.
There is a refused appeal where the adjudicator stated the road
markings 'All traffic routes' (with a right arrow) is sufficient
instead of a second sign.
How are Camden getting away with it?
Interestingly, the bus gate at Great Russell Street used to have
what looks like a timed 'No Entry' sign (closes when not
applicable) very prominent - GSV:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/jTd1cHPEEpBVrrUo7
#Post#: 81741--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles; local
buses & cycles only - URGENT
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: July 20, 2025, 4:19 am
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You count from day 1 as 26th June. I am happy to represent you.
#Post#: 81742--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles; local
buses & cycles only - URGENT
DIR By: markie76
Date: July 20, 2025, 4:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> You count from day 1 as 26th June. I am happy to represent
you.
>
--- End Quote ---
Aha, that gives a bit more time.
Thank you for your kind offer which I would be grateful to
accept :)
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