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#Post#: 75580--------------------------------------------------
Ealing, 53J Perimeade Road, entering pedestrian zone
DIR By: Dip0
Date: June 9, 2025, 12:31 pm
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PCN Ao05283982
LS74 WFH
Wife was picking up her parents who live local and took a wrong
turn. Says she never even saw the signs and didn't realise it
was restricted due to cars parked either side on the road.
She entered from Fairfield drive so the signage wasn't quite
visible from the right turn as left sign obscured by tree and
right sign very close to turn itself, and at the time of the
turn, the car entering Fairfield drive on the photo was coming
from there so blocked her vision of the sign partially too.
Car registered to me so I received the PCN.
Any ideas on whether this is something that can be challenged?
This doesn't have a video on the PCN page.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/x2QmRSQ5McgwX78t8?g_st=ac
Thanks in advance. Have to pay by 17/6/25 for reduced fee
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 75655--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing, 53J Perimeade Road, entering pedestrian zone
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 9, 2025, 5:21 pm
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Unfortunately, only Perimeade Road is up-to-date on GSV, the
approach from Fairfield Drive has a gap in coverage as one
approaches the T-junction. We really do need to see if there is
an advance warning sign on Fairfield Drive. If there isn't, then
you're in with a fair chance. We see these all the time, and
whether one can win is always a bit of a puzzle with what is
there on the ground signage-wise.
Any chance of a photo of the approach on Fairfield Drive ?
There may also be a 'technical' appeal based on Ealing
mismanagement of the enforcement process. Such appeals have
nothing to do with the actual alleged contravention.
Unfortunately, councils never accept ther are ever in the wrong
so you'd have to forego the discount and take them to London
Tribunals.
#Post#: 75657--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing, 53J Perimeade Road, entering pedestrian zone
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 9, 2025, 5:36 pm
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Case Details
Case reference
Appellant
Authority
VRM
PCN Details
PCN
Contravention date
Contravention time
Contravention location
Penalty amount
Contravention
Referral date
Decision Date
Adjudicator
Appeal decision
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons
Mr Murray Smith represented Guaranteed Cleaning Limited. No one
represented the Authority.
He submitted that The Traffic Management Order does not
establish a pedestrian zone.
He submitted that ‘a pedestrian zone sign can only be placed if
there is an Act, order, regulation, bylaw, resolution or notice
that creates a pedestrian zone…… The traffic management order at
evidence item B does not create a pedestrian zone, it merely
creates a motor vehicle prohibition’.
The Authority’s The Ealing (Perivale School Streets) (No.1)
Order Schedule 1 refers to prescribed streets which include
‘Perimeade Road, between the Western kerb-line of Fairfield
Drive and its junction with Federal Road’.
However the Order does not create a pedestrian zone.
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/8/part/2/made
provides
'PART 5The Schedule 8 General Directions
1. The signs provided for-
(a)in the sign table in Part 2; and
(b)at items 1, 2, 6 and 7 of the sign table in Part 4,
must only be placed to indicate the effect of an Act, order,
regulation, bylaw, resolution or notice which restricts or
prohibits the use of the road by traffic'.
Josephine Dayan v London Borough of Barnet (2220227611, 18 May
2022), held that in order to use a zone boundary sign it is of
crucial importance that the Traffic Management Order (TMO) must
create a zone, or else there is no lawful authority to install
zone boundary signs.
Accordingly the signage evident in the Authority images is not
authorised by the applicable law and the penalty charge notice
cannot be enforced.
The appeal is allowed.
#Post#: 75762--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing, 53J Perimeade Road, entering pedestrian zone
DIR By: Dip0
Date: June 10, 2025, 7:32 am
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Thank you both - I'll see to see if we drive past the area again
before the discount period ends to take photos.
Regarding the other case where the appeal was allowed, has there
been any change since or could I quote this in a challenge?
#Post#: 76436--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing, 53J Perimeade Road, entering pedestrian zone
DIR By: Dip0
Date: June 14, 2025, 4:50 am
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Sorry still waiting for some help regarding tm response
#Post#: 76440--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing, 53J Perimeade Road, entering pedestrian zone
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 14, 2025, 5:23 am
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Message our admin cp8759 - he won that appeal and may know if
it's still valid.
I think appeals on signage haven't succeeded.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/gMG7BGXx/83498e338d3b9d70e1ad101628902e35f797f5d1.gif
#Post#: 76469--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing, 53J Perimeade Road, entering pedestrian zone
DIR By: Dip0
Date: June 14, 2025, 11:37 am
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Thank you I have sent him a forum message :)
#Post#: 76518--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing, 53J Perimeade Road, entering pedestrian zone
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 14, 2025, 7:13 pm
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The defective TMO argument is still valid but previous decisions
are not legally binding, we have a bunch of newly appointed
adjudicators who have no idea what they're doing, so there is an
element of risk. I also wouldn't really recommend a DIY appeal
as it's a very technical argument, but it can still succeed.
I don't see much chance of a challenge on the signage getting
anywhere, as there are two signs and they were approached
head-on. It might also be possible to trip the authority up into
making a procedural mistake, it's a bit convoluted but it can
help to have two grounds of appeal rather than one.
#Post#: 80229--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing, 53J Perimeade Road, entering pedestrian zone
DIR By: Dip0
Date: July 9, 2025, 6:04 am
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So I am waiting for an outcome of me appealing/challenging the
PCN but recrived a text message today saying:
Legal Pre-Action Notice: PCN Fine Remains Unpaid
This fine is a valid recorded offence in the system and remains
unpaid to date. If not resolved by 10 July 2025, legal
proceedings may be initiated, potentially resulting in
additional costs.
Payment link:
HTML https://gov.comsitbntbz.live/PCN?MkV=Vo4Xq2
My impression was that payment is on hold while the challenge is
pending?
When I go to challenge on their website it's still showing the
discounted price currently.
Should I ring the council or can I safely ignore this?
#Post#: 80279--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing, 53J Perimeade Road, entering pedestrian zone
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: July 9, 2025, 11:27 am
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Looks like a scam message. When I tried the link it came up "not
found". The message does not have your name, or the PCN Number
on it. There is no such lawful message in the legal process for
enforcement of PCNs. Certainly do not pay anything.
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