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#Post#: 82120--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Camden - using a route restricted to certain vehicles
local buses and cycles only
DIR By: bigred247
Date: July 22, 2025, 8:51 am
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[member=2249]stamfordman[/member]
Thank you for your reply.
I usually add comments in the box (below) when making an appeal.
Are you saying there is no harm in leaving this blank, and later
add my appeal, when the council has submitted its evidence
pack/claim? Is their any detrement in adding context initially?
Can the appeal explanation be modified later?
HTML https://i.imgur.com/WvSlpNA.png
#Post#: 82124--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Camden - using a route restricted to certain vehicles
local buses and cycles only
DIR By: bigred247
Date: July 22, 2025, 9:08 am
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I believe it is the 28th day today, so i will be making an
appeal before midnight. Nothing like cutting it in fine.
#Post#: 82149--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Camden - using a route restricted to certain vehicles
local buses and cycles only
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: July 22, 2025, 10:02 am
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I would initially say you rely on your representations but add a
few notes on the rejection, which hasn't addressed in particular
the sandwich between two vehicles, the reference to 'signs'
plural when I think there is only one, and maybe others - check
the rejection against your reps.
Go for a telephone or Teams meeting.
#Post#: 82154--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Camden - using a route restricted to certain vehicles
local buses and cycles only
DIR By: bigred247
Date: July 22, 2025, 10:15 am
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Thanks ;)
#Post#: 97639--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Camden - using a route restricted to certain vehicles
local buses and cycles only
DIR By: bigred247
Date: November 11, 2025, 3:22 am
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@stamfordman @Incandescent
Hi folks,
I had my Tribunal hearing yesterday, but my appeal was
unsuccessful. The hearing was adjudicated by Andrew Harman.
In my argument, I cited previous successful cases (involving
other drivers) that were handled by Sean Stanton-Dunne. However,
right from the off, Adjudicator Harman made it clear that he
didn't agree with the outcomes of those previous cases, so I
feared the worst.
I tried to stand my ground, but he stated that precedent in
traffic law doesn't necessitate that the outcome will follow
previous decisions and that each case is subjective.
Given that he's explicitly disagreeing with established Tribunal
decisions, is it worth appealing, or should I take the loss on
this occasion?
PS. I did receieve an evidence pack from the council, but due to
work and family pressures, completely forgot to post this here
for feedback.
--- Quote ---
>
>
> Adjudicator's Reasons
>
> The appellant attended the hearing of this appeal today on the
Microsoft Teams video conferencing
> platform.
>
> The council did not attend the hearing, it not being expected
to do so.
>
> The contravention alleged in these proceedings was that this
vehicle, at Tottenham Court Road, by
> the junction with Howland Street, used a route restricted to
certain vehicles.
>
> The appellant made submissions in accordance with those set
out in writing, he explaining that he
> was driving to collect his son from the UCH Macmillan Cancer
Centre, he raising the issue of signage.
>
> On the evidence before me, the appellant drove through
regulatory signage posted at this junction
> giving a mandatory direction to proceed left at it, the
vehicle then being driven past a regulatory sign
> posted on the left warning the appellant of the restriction.
>
> I was satisfied on the council's video footage of the incident
that that latter sign would have been
> within the appellant's line of vision, it being clear and
unobstructed.
>
> I did not accept that there was any conflict in signage at
this location, or that signage was confusing,
> and I found signage, taken as a whole, to be adequate.
>
> I respectfully disagreed with the adjudicator on this point in
the cases cited by the appellant.
>
> I accepted that driving in central London is not easy, and I
noted the purpose of the appellant's
> journey, but I was not satisfied that he had a defence to this
penalty charge, and I found this
> contravention proved.
>
> The appeal was refused.
>
> Andrew Harman
> Adjudicator
> 10th November 2025
> 2250363958
> CU70801006
>
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 97646--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Camden - using a route restricted to certain vehicles
local buses and cycles only
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: November 11, 2025, 4:05 am
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Disagreeing with other decisions is not a ground for review.
#Post#: 97649--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Camden - using a route restricted to certain vehicles
local buses and cycles only
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 11, 2025, 4:09 am
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--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Disagreeing with other decisions is not a ground for review.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed it isn't but surely this "august body of adjudicators"
should accept that identical circumstances should give the same
outcome. OK, the date is different !
#Post#: 97656--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Camden - using a route restricted to certain vehicles
local buses and cycles only
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: November 11, 2025, 5:03 am
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HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/camden-using-a-route-restricted-to-certain-vehicles-local-buses-cycles-only-urge/msg96927/#msg96927
This is why I don't do Mondays.
****
As per my usual advice: tis impossible to advise re a review
unless we know ALL the angles raised e.g.: the TMO supplied by
Camden.
#Post#: 97896--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Camden - using a route restricted to certain vehicles
local buses and cycles only
DIR By: bigred247
Date: November 12, 2025, 11:51 am
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[member=24]Hippocrates[/member]
I suspect you mean the evidence pack? I will upload a link to
the doc shortly.
#Post#: 98985--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Camden - using a route restricted to certain vehicles
local buses and cycles only
DIR By: bigred247
Date: November 20, 2025, 7:34 am
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[member=24]Hippocrates[/member]
[member=12]Incandescent[/member]
Apologies for the late posting. This is Camden's evidence pack.
What do you think?
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oUCDuBaAlwLcOQzKyM3Fds3eti9Pe7x1/view?usp=sharing
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