URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
  HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 75483--------------------------------------------------
       Cause vehicle to be left in a dangerous position
   DIR By: ikjasd
       Date: June 9, 2025, 4:33 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I have a letter from West Midlands Police with the offence of
       'cause vehicle to be left in a dangerous position'. Offence
       code: RT88508
       I responded to an earlier letter from the police confirming that
       i was the driver of the vehicle.
       I don't believe that i have seen any evidence of the actual
       contravention.
       I now have the option (a) paying £100 and accepting three
       penalty points (b) requesting a court hearing.
       I believe that i should at least be sent some photos of the
       potential error that i made and it seems strange to accept error
       when i don't know what the contravention was.
       I have to respond within six days to comply with the 28 day
       return period. I probably would have requested a court hearing
       but there is a comment that states that 'you may also have to
       pay extra costs' if going down this route.
       Any help will be really appreciated.
       #Post#: 75491--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cause vehicle to be left in a dangerous position
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: June 9, 2025, 4:52 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: ikjasd link ---
       >
       > I believe that i should at least be sent some photos of the
       potential error that i made and it seems strange to accept error
       when i don't know what the contravention was.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       What you believe is irrelevant.
       You have been offered an opportunity to discharge liability for
       the offence alleged by accepting a fixed penalty. Either you
       accept the fixed penalty, and that is the end of the matter, or
       you do not accept the fixed penalty and would presumably be
       prosecuted for the alleged offence.
       #Post#: 75495--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cause vehicle to be left in a dangerous position
   DIR By: ikjasd
       Date: June 9, 2025, 5:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       thanks for your response.
       1) Is it typical to be prosecuted for an offence without
       providing evidence/photos of the contravention?
       2) If i request a court hearing do i have to 'pay extra costs'
       #Post#: 75501--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cause vehicle to be left in a dangerous position
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: June 9, 2025, 5:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       1. You won't be prosecuted without evidence being provided. When
       you are notified of court proceedings you will also be served
       with the evidence the police intend to rely on to convict you.
       2. If you are convicted following a not guilty plea and a trial
       in court you will face an income-related fine (minimum half a
       week's net income), a surcharge of 40% of that fine and
       prosecution costs of around £620. If your conviction follows
       from a guilty plea you will be granted a one third discount off
       the fine and the costs will be around £90.
       In short, if your income is £500pw it will cost you a minimum of
       £325 if you plead guilty or £970 if you plead not guilty but are
       convicted.
       You obviously know when and where this occurred (since you
       accepted you were the driver at the time and place). Have you no
       idea at all what it might relate to?
       #Post#: 75508--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cause vehicle to be left in a dangerous position
   DIR By: ikjasd
       Date: June 9, 2025, 5:45 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       'You obviously know when and where this occurred (since you
       accepted you were the driver at the time and place). Have you no
       idea at all what it might relate to?'
       i know exactly the location as it states it on the letter but i
       have no idea what this is in relation to.
       #Post#: 75521--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cause vehicle to be left in a dangerous position
   DIR By: ManxTom
       Date: June 9, 2025, 6:52 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Could you try calling them to ask exactly what you did wrong?
       They aren't obliged to tell you, but then again they might.
       Don't ask, don't get...
       #Post#: 75522--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cause vehicle to be left in a dangerous position
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: June 9, 2025, 6:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Then your choices are, as Andy says, to accept the offer of
       choose to have your case heard in court.
       You could try a bemused approach to the police to ask if they
       will give you some idea of what you are alleged to have done.
       Normally they will not get involved in much by way of
       correspondence. As you can see from my figures, the fixed
       penalty is far and away the best offer you will get and one of
       the reasons for that is because the work required by the the
       police is far less onerous than if they prosecuted you in court.
       #Post#: 75586--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cause vehicle to be left in a dangerous position
   DIR By: JustLoveCars
       Date: June 9, 2025, 1:14 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: ikjasd link ---
       >
       > i know exactly the location as it states it on the letter but
       i have no idea what this is in relation to.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Can you give us the location?
       #Post#: 75596--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cause vehicle to be left in a dangerous position
   DIR By: roythebus
       Date: June 9, 2025, 1:50 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I was done for dangerous parking back in the 1980s. Whether or
       not the same offence remains on the statute book is not known,
       but it was one of the parking offences that carried points on
       the licence at the time. It took the police more than 6 months
       to even contact me. i looked into the matter and found that it
       was indeed an endorseable offence, but they had to notify me
       within 14 days of the alleged offence BY RECORDED DELIVERY post,
       which they didn't Case went to Clerkenwell magistrates who ofund
       me guilty but as the police cocked up with service case
       dismissed.
       So if we know what exactly the offence is Section xxx RTA 2004
       for instance, we can see what the process should have been.
       #Post#: 75706--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cause vehicle to be left in a dangerous position
   DIR By: facade
       Date: June 10, 2025, 3:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The offence relates to section 22 of the RTA
  HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/22
       If a person in charge of a vehicle causes or permits the vehicle
       or a trailer drawn by it to remain at rest on a road in such a
       position or in such condition or in such circumstances as to
       involve a danger of injury to other persons using the road, he
       is guilty of an offence.
       It covers things like parking on a blind bend or approach to a
       humpback bridge or right on a junction so that traffic has to
       risk a head on collision to pass because their visibility is
       blocked- by the car itself or the road layout and the car forces
       traffic into a potentially dangerous overtaking manoeuvre, or
       blocking the pavement so pedestrians (e.g. pushchair &
       wheelchair users) have to step into the road to pass.
       The prosecution has to prove that:
       (1) You left it there (hence the S172)
       (2) The position/condition that it was left caused a danger of
       injury to others using the road.
       (The "in such condition" part would cover not applying the
       handbrake so that the vehicle could roll, having something
       unmarked sticking out a long way, or a severe oil/fuel leak
       spreading out over the road)
       I'm unclear on (2) whether a photo of the position would do, or
       whether they have to observe someone risking injury.
       The FPN is £100 + 3 points.
       A defence would be "circumstances beyond your control" like a
       breakdown that locked the transmission so it couldn't be moved
       until recovery arrive.
       *****************************************************
       Page 1 of 1