DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 75306--------------------------------------------------
Brent, code 16 parked in a permit zone on event day, Windermere
Avenue, on street parking bay
DIR By: user334232
Date: June 7, 2025, 4:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi
Just came across this website.
Unfortunately I have already sent my challenge off to the
council, but thought it would still be useful to share my case
below.
I parked within a CPZ on an event day, in a bay with no clear
signage within 30m. I now have a ticket for £160, or £80 if I
pay within 14 days.
My challenge is below:
Dear Sir/Madam, Re: PCN xxxxxxxxx, Issued on 7 June 2025 –
Windermere Avenue
I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge
Notice (PCN), issued on 7 June 2025 on Windermere Avenue. I
believe the PCN was issued unfairly due to unclear and
inadequate signage.
I was surprised and disappointed to receive the notice, as I
made every effort to park responsibly and within what I believed
were unrestricted conditions. On 7 June, I parked on the
left-hand side of Windermere Avenue near the shops, having
carefully checked around my bay for any parking restrictions.
While I did notice a permit holders only sign near the station
as I drove up the road, its positioning - set back from
Windermere Avenue - and angle suggested it applied only to the
small road behind it, not the main stretch of Windermere Avenue
where I parked.
No permit-related signage was visible near my bay. The only
parking sign nearby referred to electric vehicle charging and
did not indicate any permit requirement on either side of the
road. I also observed other vehicles parked nearby without
permits, none of which were ticketed at the time, or upon my
return — further adding to the confusion.
After receiving the PCN, I used Google Earth to measure the
distance to the nearest relevant sign, which is over 35 metres
away. This sign is also angled parallel to the direction of
traffic on Windermere Road, making it extremely difficult to see
or read - especially when driving along the same side of the
road as the shops. Please see the attached photo for reference.
Under section 3.14 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General
Directions 2016 (TSRGD), "a single sign must be clearly visible
and not compromise enforcement or safety, with two signs
preferable where visibility is limited." The sign’s placement
fails this standard, rendering the restriction unclear and
unenforceable.
While I understand that Controlled Parking Zones are usually
marked by entry signs, the presence of occasional signs within
the zone creates a reasonable expectation that local signage
will clarify restrictions - particularly for drivers unfamiliar
with the area, like myself. I contend that the signage does not
meet the legal requirement for clear visibility as per TSRGD
2016.
Had the restriction been clearly indicated at the bay, I
evidently would not have parked there.
In addition, I am <young> and work as a xxxxx. I also work
weekend shifts as xxxxx to save for university in London next
year. The £80 fine (or £160 if unpaid within the discount
period) represents a significant financial burden, equivalent to
over a day’s pay.
I respectfully request cancellation of this PCN due to
inadequate signage. I hope you will exercise discretion given my
circumstances.
Yours sincerely,
xxxxxx
Images are below:
HTML https://imgur.kageurufu.net/KAfewq5.jpeg
HTML https://imgur.kageurufu.net/f7wkZvp.jpeg
HTML https://imgur.kageurufu.net/5vWIa3H.jpeg
HTML https://imgur.kageurufu.net/yWpLJDE.jpeg
From Brent's own CPZ FAQ's:
HTML https://imgur.kageurufu.net/WSngvOG.png
Which implies all the signage should be clearly marked
Looking forward to hearing from you all
Thanks in advance!
Videos:
HTML https://imgur.com/W67Y2nC
HTML https://imgur.com/W67Y2nC
HTML https://imgur.com/W67Y2nC
HTML https://imgur.com/W67Y2nC
Location:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/RKAsZgZESU84r42D8
#Post#: 75309--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 16 parked in a permit zone on event day,
Windermere Avenue, on street parking bay
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 7, 2025, 5:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The sign you posted looks like a permit parking area not a CPZ.
What is the Google Maps location and are there more council pics
with any signage.
#Post#: 75310--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 16 parked in a permit zone on event day,
Windermere Avenue, on street parking bay
DIR By: user334232
Date: June 7, 2025, 5:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Just added the Google Maps/Earth link
Here is a link to the event day parking restrictions:
HTML https://www.brent.gov.uk/-/media/files/resident-documents/parking-roads-and-transport-document/all-cpzs-map.pdf?rev=edc3b80a2809458bacbbefff27a38c7e
HTML https://www.brent.gov.uk/-/media/files/resident-documents/parking-roads-and-transport-document/all-cpzs-map.pdf?rev=edc3b80a2809458bacbbefff27a38c7e
HTML https://imgur.kageurufu.net/aWttTsO.jpeg
I parked in the highlighted area
#Post#: 75312--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 16 parked in a permit zone on event day,
Windermere Avenue, on street parking bay
DIR By: user334232
Date: June 7, 2025, 5:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://imgur.kageurufu.net/9rLNhyp.png
Is the council photo. The issue is that this sign was over 30m
away and barely noticeable
#Post#: 75314--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 16 parked in a permit zone on event day,
Windermere Avenue, on street parking bay
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 7, 2025, 5:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
We've come across these weird Wembley zones before - not a CPZ
but a sort of reverse permit parking area as usually in small
PPAs the kerbside is unrestricted for residents and marked (and
signed) bays are for other purposes (eg pay bays).
The zone looks big - how you're supposed to clock it's an event
day from the entry sign and also be aware that all bays are
controlled with or without nearby signs I think is poor and open
to challenge. It's worth looking at tribunal cases.
HTML https://imgur.kageurufu.net/nWHEUkX.png
#Post#: 75315--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 16 parked in a permit zone on event day,
Windermere Avenue, on street parking bay
DIR By: user334232
Date: June 7, 2025, 5:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Assuming you saw my original response to the council - what do
you think they will respond with?
I couldn’t find any similar tribunal cases, but did see a case
on here but in Barnet, although there was never a follow up post
which revealed the outcome of the appeal
#Post#: 75316--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 16 parked in a permit zone on event day,
Windermere Avenue, on street parking bay
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 7, 2025, 6:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Stongest point is surely that there is no "Next Event" date on
the entry sign. There seems to be a mounting plate for it in the
photo, so maybe they do put these up, but worth investigating, I
think.
#Post#: 75346--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 16 parked in a permit zone on event day,
Windermere Avenue, on street parking bay
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 8, 2025, 6:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, where's the PCN pl?
Leave in your VRM and PCN no. then we can see the council's
photos. At present, I'm suffering from information overload, not
all of which is relevant.
I've no idea what the 'P' sign wording is, it's certainly not
prescribed. Either a sign applies to a bay or an area. If a bay,
then it's these markings which give effect to the parking sign,
the words 'in marked bays' therefore being redundant, hence not
prescribed. If a permit parking area then it's wrong because as
an 'area' restriction it has to carry '..past this point or in
** street'.
#Post#: 75347--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 16 parked in a permit zone on event day,
Windermere Avenue, on street parking bay
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 8, 2025, 6:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It's a huge zone and it's worth retracing your route to the
parking place. They may not be able to show the event day date
was displayed.
The entry signs refer to marked bays not signed bays, which I'd
say is a distinction without a difference to people used to
signed parking bays.
The signs in the zone are essentially repeater signs but at
least one would expect a clear reminder by a busy area such
where the OP was.
Also there is nothing in the zone to check for an event day such
as sign plates with an event day hotline.
#Post#: 75358--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent, code 16 parked in a permit zone on event day,
Windermere Avenue, on street parking bay
DIR By: user334232
Date: June 8, 2025, 8:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Here is my PCN
Thanks for your help
BT25595323
FY20MKC
Brent ticket portal
HTML https://brent.tarantoportal.com/PCN/
HTML https://imgur.kageurufu.net/ZDuEUgR.jpeg
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 7
DIR Next Page