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#Post#: 75218--------------------------------------------------
Camden, code 21r parked in suspended bay / residents bay,
Kingdon road / West Hampstead
DIR By: freestars
Date: June 7, 2025, 5:45 am
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Yesterday my neighbour knocked on my door and said "there's 3
people around your car and they're about to tow it".
To my surprise I went downstairs only to find 3 guys, a tow
truck, and a PCN already issued.
I asked what happened, and they said that this is a partially
suspended bay. I looked, and there was indeed that funny yellow
piece of plastic on a column (which I obviously didn't notice).
I live just upstairs, and I've seen these green signs on and off
here and there.
The tower handed me the ticket and said "here's your present",
language that I did not appreciate at all, but ho hum.
I said "you know that it's illegal to tow cars?". He replied "we
weren't going to tow it, we were just going to relocate it". I
said that I was busy and don't have time to have an argument
about this.
Granted, there was a yellow sign that was prohibiting parking
(someone was moving in, or out, and I reckon they have put a
request to the council for that?), however, I have a life and
two kids that I need to be taking back and forth to the nursery,
and I honestly don't have the time to read or pay attention to
every sign that Camden decides to put up, especially right below
where I live. As far as I'm concerned, it's a parking space and
I am allowed to park.
They should at least make it a little more obvious, like they do
whenever they feel like e.g. yellow tape to clearly mark the
place -why did not they do that?
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ha3GGEn.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/TVfbEzi.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Tp3GfTN.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/SbMyQLP.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/XGKJuhp.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/gq4bt5q.jpeg
Location is here:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/QPioruLcqUsQ3uDq5
#Post#: 75223--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden, code 21r parked in suspended bay / residents bay,
Kingdon road / West Hampstead
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 7, 2025, 6:19 am
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If your approach is to ignore parking signs you'll end up with
PCNs. Bay suspensions are common in London.
When did you park there - the suspension sign can hardly be
missed. But were you in the suspension area described.
Date of PCN is 6 June, second of a two day suspension.
Sign up for suspension alerts here:
HTML https://accountforms.camden.gov.uk/parking-bay-suspensions-search-and-alerts
#Post#: 75277--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden, code 21r parked in suspended bay / residents bay,
Kingdon road / West Hampstead
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 7, 2025, 1:37 pm
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Where's the 'whole bay outside 1 to 3'? There don't appear to be
bays, it's a parking place reserved to permit holders which does
not have internal dividers as suggested in the plan.
Furthermore, if the bay was a discrete unit then the traffic
sign should have been covered because it applied only to the
suspended area.
And as parking prior to 8.30 was unrestricted, albeit within a
designated parking place, then IMO a penalty could not be
demanded before 8.41. Regulation 5 refers:
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/regulation/5
Some thoughts.
#Post#: 75282--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden, code 21r parked in suspended bay / residents bay,
Kingdon road / West Hampstead
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 7, 2025, 1:56 pm
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--- Quote ---
> I honestly don't have the time to read or pay attention to
every sign that Camden decides to put up, especially right below
where I live. As far as I'm concerned, it's a parking space and
I am allowed to park.
>
--- End Quote ---
So be prepared to get a LOT of PCNs !
HCA' point on the 10 minute grace period may have some validity,
but some adjudicators read the regulation as giving 10 minutes
grace where the vehicle overruns its allowed time in a parking
bay that remains an open parking bay beyond the allowed time.
#Post#: 75307--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden, code 21r parked in suspended bay / residents bay,
Kingdon road / West Hampstead
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 7, 2025, 4:50 pm
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Camden won't accept the 10 min grace argument and I'm not sure
it's wise to rely on this ground only. But I think we had one
won on a yellow line case out of London.
Camden did lose two cases on this (inc. one reviewed):
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G0L1N2uhGjb3tdOyrEGU4ZEKbYbfsuKe/edit
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pyaz1Hh48aAMAiHaQolbCNwIADBZ0kVM/edit
But then there was this reviewed one where Ivan did his best but
it was said:
I take the view that when a designated parking place is
suspended, it does not cease to exist, as suggested by the
Authority, instead it continues to exist but becomes inactive,
which means that no parking is permitted in the parking place at
any time [other than specified vehicle or vehicles engaged in
the activity requiring the suspension). The wording of the
10-minute grace provisions indicates, in my view, that it is
concerned with active parking places, not inactive ones. There
is a definition of “parking place’ at s32 Road Traffic
Regulation Act 1984 that states: “parking place” means a place
where vehicles, or vehicles of any class, may wait’. The words:
‘may wait’ denote exactly that, whereas in the case of a
suspended bay, a vehicle may not wait.
Furthermore, the definition of ‘permitted parking period’
indicates that the condition of being able to park in the
parking place is simply payment or authorisation. The words:
‘the vehicle has been left beyond the permitted parking period’
indicate that there is an ongoing ability to park in the parking
space, subject to payment or permit ie the parking space is
active and continues to be so. That is not the case with a
suspended bay. In those circumstances, I take the view that a
suspended bay does not fall within the definition of a
‘designated parking place’ in the context of the 10-minute grace
provisions which require that the parking place be active rather
than inactive and so it follows that that those provisions do
not apply to suspended bays. Accordingly, I agree with the
Adjudicator’s decision.
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/18N6037-TBIfvUkEOHSi1XWDh7UC86l5p/edit
#Post#: 75327--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden, code 21r parked in suspended bay / residents bay,
Kingdon road / West Hampstead
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 8, 2025, 4:25 am
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So this rules out shared-use parking places that become no
waiting etc?
IMO, the reasoning is nonsense. The fundamental issue, as I
remember Pickles saying on more than one occasion AND which now
applies in the Single Code of Practice followed by the private
sector is it is unreasonable and unfair to penalise a driver who
returns a few minutes late to move their car, irrespective of
what type of restriction/prohibition follows.
I'm not suggesting that this should be the only grounds -should
this go to adjudication- but when it's introduced a preamble
might be useful to address the above rationale.
#Post#: 75343--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden, code 21r parked in suspended bay / residents bay,
Kingdon road / West Hampstead
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 8, 2025, 6:03 am
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I agree - I'm just flagging up cases that are also in Camden and
which this authority is keen to review.
Camden says:
It is important to note that the grace period only applies to
‘designated parking places’ and not on yellow lines, keep
clears, zig-zags or suspended bays.[/I]
but that doesn't explain what happens if you are in a parking
place initially.
One of the allowed cases puts it simply:
[i]There is force in the argument that the officer should have
allowed a 10
minute period of grace before issuing the Penalty Charge Notice,
in line with
Section 2 of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions
(England)
General (Amendment) Regulations 2015. This is the provision
which applies
where a vehicle is stationary in a designated parking place and
been left
beyond the permitted parking period. The crucial element is that
the initial
parking must have been lawful. In this case a course it was, at
the time the
vehicle was left the suspension was not actually in force, even
if there is
debate about when the warning sign was erected. The suspension
came
into force at 8 AM on the morning of 6 January and the PCN was
issued at
8:02 AM. In the circumstances I conclude that the issue of this
PCN was not
compliant with the requirements of the "10 minute grace period"
regulations
and that the appeal could be allowed on that basis.
#Post#: 75423--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden, code 21r parked in suspended bay / residents bay,
Kingdon road / West Hampstead
DIR By: freestars
Date: June 8, 2025, 1:41 pm
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Where's the 'whole bay outside 1 to 3'? There don't appear to
be bays, it's a parking place reserved to permit holders which
does not have internal dividers as suggested in the plan.
>
> Furthermore, if the bay was a discrete unit then the traffic
sign should have been covered because it applied only to the
suspended area.
>
> And as parking prior to 8.30 was unrestricted, albeit within a
designated parking place, then IMO a penalty could not be
demanded before 8.41. Regulation 5 refers:
>
>
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/regulation/5
>
> Some thoughts.
>
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you all for your input and for pointing out the 5 min
rule, the sign clearly states 08.30 - 18:30 daily, therefore it
doesn't stipulate 2 x 24hrs. So 8:33 would break the 10 minute
rule, the legislation is clear.
Also, as you mentioned, there is one bay that spans from Solo
M/Cs to the charging bay in front of me.
So what are my next steps? Challenge the PCN on those grounds?
#Post#: 75429--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camden, code 21r parked in suspended bay / residents bay,
Kingdon road / West Hampstead
DIR By: Chaseman
Date: June 8, 2025, 2:12 pm
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I was hoping we might have a defence on the appearance of the
parking suspension sign. Here is Camden's authorisation dating
from 2011. LAs with authorisations this old frequently forget
the "with the year omitted" stipulation but it looks as though
Camden has got it right unless anyone can spot something
inconsistent that I can't.
HTML https://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-2979.pdf
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