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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 74713--------------------------------------------------
Speeding Offence
DIR By: danswa101
Date: June 4, 2025, 5:36 am
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Hi,
A while ago in 2023 I was stopped for two offences - speeding
and driving without insurance. The driving without insurance
offence was dropped as the insurer made error in their admin and
delayed the policy start time. They accepted this and
indemnified the policy.
The speeding offence is still on going, I've pleaded not guilty
as I don't think I was going the speed alleged. They claim that
I was travelling at 90mph in a 50mph zone and provided dashcam
as their evidence. In this dashcam or any of the evidence
provided, you can't see my vehicle clearly or the VRM. The
vehicle was stopped by uniformed officers in an unmarked car.
The statement the officer has written, doesn't reflect the
evidence they've provided either. I can accept that I was likely
going over the 50mph zone as it was a dual carriage way that I
thought was a 70mph zone but I don't believe I was going 90mph.
As the officer says in the video, they're playing catch up, so I
don't think the speed he's travelling at can be used as the
speed I'm going?
I've attached the SJP I received, the video provided by the
police and the officers statement. When this finally goes to
court (keeps getting adjourned). What's the likely outcome based
on the evidence?
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/zoz527l3qls1ig21dglec/AE8VBmBPd3Vk28Fz8Ex320I?rlkey=1w18a4dkm4h6tm4si3mcuogsn&st=89e9aii7&dl=0
#Post#: 74720--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence
DIR By: 666
Date: June 4, 2025, 6:30 am
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First, you need to redact your personal details from the
attachments.
The charge is exceeding the speed limit, and you admit your
guilt. The alleged speed is only relevant in determining the
sentence.
You have shared the officer's statement and video. What evidence
will you provide?
#Post#: 74722--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: June 4, 2025, 6:41 am
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--- Quote ---
> What's the likely outcome based on the evidence?
--- End Quote ---
I think the overwhelmingly likely outcome is that you will be
convicted.
On your own admission, you accept you were exceeding the speed
limit (although you have not been too specific other than to say
you thought the limit was 70mph). So what persuaded you to plead
not guilty?
As above, your personal details appear all over the documents
you have posted up. Might be a good idea to redact them.
#Post#: 74723--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: June 4, 2025, 6:42 am
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--- Quote from: danswa101 link ---
>
> I've pleaded not guilty as I don't think I was going the speed
alleged.
>
--- End Quote ---
The alleged offence is exceeding the prescribed limit (Not a
specific speed). By pleading not guilty you are saying you did
not exceed 50mph and would go to trial if maintained.
--- Quote from: danswa101 link ---
>
> They claim that I was travelling at 90mph in a 50mph zone and
provided dashcam as their evidence. In this dashcam or any of
the evidence provided, you can't see my vehicle clearly or the
VRM. The vehicle was stopped by uniformed officers in an
unmarked car. The statement the officer has written, doesn't
reflect the evidence they've provided either. I can accept that
I was likely going over the 50mph zone as it was a dual carriage
way that I thought was a 70mph zone but I don't believe I was
going 90mph.
>
--- End Quote ---
From the footage posted the Police were doing well in excess of
90mph (and the car being pursued did not get any closer).
--- Quote from: danswa101 link ---
>
> As the officer says in the video, they're playing catch up, so
I don't think the speed he's travelling at can be used as the
speed I'm going?
>
--- End Quote ---
It's quite normal. As long as they can sufficiently connect the
dots (i.e. it was you and your car being pursued) then a
conviction is extremely likely.
--- Quote from: danswa101 link ---
>
> What's the likely outcome based on the evidence?
>
--- End Quote ---
The excess sets the sentence. For a 50mph limit then the
highest band (C) starts at 76mph where 6 points is likely or a
short ban (up to 2 months). A fine of around 150% of weekly
relevant earnings. (33% discount if pleading guilty at earliest
opportunity) Surcharge of 40% of the fine and costs (Likely to
exceed £600 if taken to trial).
However, 90mph could well be considered grossly in excess and
the ban could be longer etc.
The alternative is a Newton Hearing (this requires a guilty
plea). That is you admit to exceeding the limit but you do not
agree with the excess. (Although looking at the footage I think
90mph is generous)
I think you should consider professional advice, especially if
you want to maintain a not guilty plea.
#Post#: 74725--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence
DIR By: danswa101
Date: June 4, 2025, 6:46 am
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Hi,
Thanks for letting me know about the personal details. I've
updated this on dropbox so it's all blocked out.
I decided to plead not guilty because while yes potentially
guilty of speeding, I don't think i'm guilty of speeding at the
alleged limit. If I pleaded guilty, that would have meant that I
pleaded guilty to the whole offence including the speed they
claim?
My issue is that the vehicle was just purchased that day, hence
the temporary insurance to drive it home. The vehicle wasn't
fitted with a dashcam or any video from my POV as the driver so
I haven't got anything to calculate it from my POV, which
obviously makes it more challenging to discredit what they're
claiming.
#Post#: 74726--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence
DIR By: danswa101
Date: June 4, 2025, 6:47 am
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Cool, thank you all.
So we're saying that I should probably just change the plea to
guilty to benefit from reduction in fine etc instead of being
found guilty at court?
I appreciate your help
#Post#: 74728--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: June 4, 2025, 6:55 am
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--- Quote ---
> From the above it seems like you should consider pleading
guilty and requesting for a Newton Hearing.
--- End Quote ---
Just for information, a "Newton Hearing" is one where, despite
your guilty plea, you disagree with the facts as stated by the
prosecution (for example, they say you were doing 90mph, you say
you were doing 60mph). A Newton Hearing may be held to resolve
that difference.
You cannot request such a hearing. It is a matter for the court
to decide. If you plead guilty "on a basis" (in my example, the
basis being you were doing only 60mph) the court must decide
whether or not the different versions of events would make a
material difference to their sentence. If they believe it would
they must either order a Newton Hearing to establish which
version is to be used for sentencing, or they must sentence you
on your version.
#Post#: 74759--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence
DIR By: Dave Green
Date: June 4, 2025, 9:30 am
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IMO, assuming that you are the vehicle directly in front of the
camera car, I would also say that only charging you for 90mph is
being generous.
When the dashcam shows the camera car is doing well in excess of
90mph, it doesn't appear to be gaining on the car being followed
and even when it shows an indicated 100+ mph, the closure rate
is minimal. I know that satnav speeds can't be relied on but
along with the officers testimony, it will probably be more than
enough for a conviction.
#Post#: 74797--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence
DIR By: ManxTom
Date: June 4, 2025, 11:47 am
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--- Quote from: Dave Green link ---
>
> IMO, assuming that you are the vehicle directly in front of
the camera car, I would also say that only charging you for
90mph is being generous.
>
> When the dashcam shows the camera car is doing well in excess
of 90mph, it doesn't appear to be gaining on the car being
followed and even when it shows an indicated 100+ mph, the
closure rate is minimal. I know that satnav speeds can't be
relied on but along with the officers testimony, it will
probably be more than enough for a conviction.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree. The police car isn't visibly gaining on the car in
front even at 103mph. It's only when the car ahead starts
braking for the roundabout and the police car is doing 107mph
that the gap begins to close.
#Post#: 74798--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding Offence
DIR By: Rallyman72
Date: June 4, 2025, 11:51 am
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--- Quote from: Dave Green link ---
>
> IMO, assuming that you are the vehicle directly in front of
the camera car, I would also say that only charging you for
90mph is being generous.
>
> When the dashcam shows the camera car is doing well in excess
of 90mph, it doesn't appear to be gaining on the car being
followed and even when it shows an indicated 100+ mph, the
closure rate is minimal. I know that satnav speeds can't be
relied on but along with the officers testimony, it will
probably be more than enough for a conviction.
>
--- End Quote ---
That isn't a satnav speed on the video, nor is the video from a
dashcam, it'll most likely be a calibrated video unit as it is
from a police vehicle.
Looking at that video it is pretty conclusive, the police car
really doesn't start making ground until the vehicle being
followed brakes for the roundabout at the end of the clip. I'd
agree that being charged for 90mph in a 50mph limit is being
fairly generous.
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