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#Post#: 74595--------------------------------------------------
Private parking ticket on public road
DIR By: belikewater
Date: June 3, 2025, 12:40 pm
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Hi everyone,
I received the attached parking ticket to which I appealed. My
appeal is also attached.
There are no road markings (picture showing this attached), and
the road is listed as public and maintained at public expense.
There's nothing indicating specific ownership or any restricted
areas related to the signage (picture of sign attached)
Today I received another letter, stating 'Unfortunately, you are
outside of the appeals deadline and therefore you are unable to
appeal to us or the IAS. We recommend settling the charge in
order to avoid additional costs'.
Any advice on the next steps I should follow would be much
appreciated, thank you in advance!
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 74597--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking ticket on public road
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: June 3, 2025, 12:44 pm
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--- Quote ---
>
> Today I received another letter, stating 'your appeal letter
was received outside of the deadline, so you can no longer
appeal to us or the IAS and we recommend you settle the fine, as
not to occur further costs'.[/i]
--- End Quote ---
Please show us that letter. If they referred to the charge as a
'fine' that would be a major breach of their code of practice.
#Post#: 74600--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking ticket on public road
DIR By: belikewater
Date: June 3, 2025, 12:51 pm
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Hi DWMB2
Thank you for your quick response. I ripped the letter up but
have just pieced it together and it actually reads as per below
- apologies for the error of the wording in my original post, I
have corrected this now.
'Unfortunately, you are outside of the appeals deadline and
therefore you are unable to appeal to us or the IAS. We
recommend settling the charge in order to avoid additional
costs'
#Post#: 74647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking ticket on public road
DIR By: b789
Date: June 3, 2025, 3:38 pm
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Can you see the irony here:
--- Quote ---
> Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> I am writing to formally appeal the Parking Charge Notice
issued to my vehicle on Curran Embankment, Cardiff on the above
date.
>
> 1. No Signage Indicating Registration Requirement
>
> At the time of the alleged contravention, there were no
visible signs or instructions indicating that registration was
required. There were also no clear road markings or boundaries
suggesting I had entered private land. The location appears to
be part of the public highway maintained at public expense, and
no signage indicated otherwise.
>
> Additionally, the signage present states "Permit Parking
Only", which means that any driver not in possession of a permit
would be considered a trespasser. As per UK law, only the
landowner may pursue a claim for trespass — a parking management
company has no legal standing to enforce penalties on
trespassers, as this falls outside of contract law.
>
> 2. Inadequate Delineation of Private Property
>
> While some side areas along Curran Embankment may potentially
be private property, they are not clearly or satisfactorily
delineated. There are no road markings, signs, or barriers that
would make a reasonable motorist aware that they were crossing
from public highway into private land. This lack of clarity
undermines any claim of breach of terms or trespass.
>
> 3. Failure to Comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of
Freedoms Act 2012
>
> You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4
of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, specifically but not
limited to Section 9(2)(e), which requires the notice to
"specify the period of parking to which the notice relates."
This omission invalidates any attempt to transfer liability from
the driver to me, the registered keeper.
>
> There is no legal obligation for me to name the driver, and I
will not be doing so.
--- End Quote ---
This is a classic example of the Keeper blabbing the drivers
identity, inadvertently or otherwise. This why the driver should
ALWAYS be referred to in the third person.
At least you have other arguments to use but you've blown the
best one that would have guaranteed a win if this ever gets as
far as a court claim.
#Post#: 74676--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking ticket on public road
DIR By: belikewater
Date: June 4, 2025, 1:30 am
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Thanks so much for your response – really appreciate it! I did
the best I could to put together a response. Hopefully, that
mistake won't outweigh all the other issues with that parking
charge and the site itself.
Just wondering – if a private parking firm doesn’t know who was
driving, would they still just go after the registered keeper?
And if it actually went to court, would I be legally required to
name the driver, assuming I’m just the keeper?
#Post#: 74678--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking ticket on public road
DIR By: jfollows
Date: June 4, 2025, 2:38 am
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--- Quote from: belikewater link ---
>
>
> Just wondering – if a private parking firm doesn’t know who
was driving, would they still just go after the registered
keeper? And if it actually went to court, would I be legally
required to name the driver, assuming I’m just the keeper?
>
--- End Quote ---
Read
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/
A private company can only pursue the registered keeper if the
comply with the appropriate legislation, the Protection of
Freedoms Act 2012
(
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4),
and
many fail to do so, hence why you should rarely identify the
driver.
You are never legally required to name the driver, most cases
never actually get to court, but of course if you’re in court
and asked under oath you’ll be unable to avoid it.
#Post#: 74685--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking ticket on public road
DIR By: b789
Date: June 4, 2025, 3:43 am
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Even in court, a defendant is under no legal obligation to
answer any question that might tend to self-incriminate,
including disclosing whether they were the driver. The burden of
proof lies entirely with the claimant to prove their case; it is
not for the defendant to disprove it.
While it is understandable that some defendants may feel
intimidated if a judge were to ask directly, “Were you the
driver?”, there remains no obligation to respond. It is
perfectly reasonable to decline to answer. In practice, such
direct questioning from a judge is exceedingly rare, and many
experienced court users will never have seen it happen.
The judge must remain impartial and cannot assist the claimant.
It is for the claimant or their representative to prove, on the
balance of probabilities, that the defendant was the driver and
that a contract was breached.
Should the defendant decline to answer that specific question,
the judge must still determine the claim based solely on the
evidence and legal arguments before the court. While the court
is entitled to draw reasonable inferences, there is persuasive
appellate authority confirming that refusing to answer does not
in itself justify an inference of driver identity. If the judge
were to find against the defendant solely on that basis, it
could give grounds for appeal on the basis that the judge erred
in law or reached a conclusion unsupported by the evidence.
Have read of the appellate case of VCS Limited v Ian Mark Edward
(2023) [H0KF6C9C]
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zra61px7l3if53o3bp9c4/VCS-v-EDWARD-Transcript.pdf?rlkey=bv4bba389nau5qpfglqkpjq5l&st=g0lrz7la&dl=0<br
/>where the appeal was allowed because the original trial judge
improperly inferred that the defendant was the driver purely
because:
[indent]• He was the registered keeper.
• He did not provide any evidence to suggest someone else was
driving.[/indent]
The appeal judge (HHJ Mark Gargan) clearly ruled that:
[indent]• There was no evidence whatsoever identifying the
defendant as the driver.
• The mere fact of being the keeper is not enough to infer
driver liability.
• The lower court judge erred in law by shifting the burden of
proof onto the defendant and by inferring driver identity
without any evidential basis.[/indent]
Therefore, to answer the original question directly: The case
was appealed because the lower court wrongly inferred that the
defendant was the driver without any evidence, and despite the
claimant not satisfying the burden of proof.
#Post#: 74806--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking ticket on public road
DIR By: belikewater
Date: June 4, 2025, 12:37 pm
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Great info from you both, many thanks!
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