DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 74335--------------------------------------------------
Ealing - Bus Lane - Uxbridge Road, WestEaling (Westward) (U) -
Bailiff Stage
DIR By: mundodisco8
Date: June 2, 2025, 10:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I drove into the bus lane. The PCN ocurred a couple of years ago
(28/09/23) and I drive that road weekly, so I don't remember the
details. That road has two lanes westward. The "middle" one ends
in a forced right turn in the next intersection, so to carry on
straight, you have to move to the left lane. As it's a busy
road, traffic can create queues, and I might have gotten into
the bus lane in anticipation to get into the left lane to
continue straight in the interception. I hope this image
clarifies it. Here's a link to the intersection in Google Maps
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/xDVDCQkdKZrrVhEv6.
My car's position is
about the same as the Post Office, that's why mi link points
there.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ukkMqsI.png
I moved to a new house but failed to update my V5C. I updated it
last year, but this PCN might be from earlier, and I haven't
received any letters from the council about it. The first notice
I got about the PCN is the Notice Of Enforcement from a debt
collection agency, that I attach. Although the notice was issued
on the 24th, I didn't get the letter until the 30th.
HTML https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/739cxw62nw7.jpg
I requested evidence from Ealing council on Friday the 30th. The
webpage said I would get an email that never reached, so I
checked again today and got this image, although I didn't get
any video. While the image shows my car clearly on the bus lane,
there's no context (for example, did I move there because an
ambulance was incoming?). I think, though, that it's pretty
clear that I wasn't there to beat the traffic, as there wasn't
any other vehicles, or blocked a bus, as there is none in the
image.
HTML https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/y8xcnmkjx24.png
Here's what I get if I try to watch a video of the infraction
HTML https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/7mmc9jrdgv7.png
I had a similar one before. It was the same scenario, the
Council *may* have sent letters to the registered address (old
address) which I didn't get, and I got notified by the recovery
agency. That time, I did an out of time challenge which got me
back to the claims stage. Neverhteless, the Council dismissed my
claim saying that it was too late and told me that I could only
pay the full amount (not the reduced amount) which I did. I was
about to do the same, but I'm afraid that the council will
dismiss any claims again, as they can simply say no, and I have
either pay or go to court, which sounds really scary to me.
Thanks for your time, I really appreciate it.
Cheers!
#Post#: 74336--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - Bus Lane - Uxbridge Road, WestEaling (Westward) (U)
- Bailiff Stage
DIR By: 666
Date: June 2, 2025, 11:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The debt collector's letter is clear: you have a county court
judgement against you, so the only way to approach this is via
the court. Others will advise on how (or whether) to do that.
#Post#: 74339--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - Bus Lane - Uxbridge Road, WestEaling (Westward) (U)
- Bailiff Stage
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 2, 2025, 11:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 666 link ---
>
> The debt collector's letter is clear: you have a county court
judgement against you, so the only way to approach this is via
the court. Others will advise on how (or whether) to do that.
>
--- End Quote ---
This isn't quite true. The Traffic Enforcement Centre is a
special court that allows public authorities to instruct
bailiffs to recover PCN debts. There is no judgment - it's a
process that can be automatically reset in-time after issue of
the order for recovery for certain legal reasons and, as here,
there is recourse to an out of time statutory declaration, but
there needs to be a good reason otherwise the authority (Ealing)
usually won't accept. There is no danger of a CCJ but there is
of the bailiff getting hold of one's car.
OP - the best advice is to pay before you get a bailiff visit as
that adds £235. If an out of time declaration is successful you
get back to the PCN stage and get a refund but you've been
through this before and it looks like you don't have a good
reason.
Is the bailiff notice addressed to your current home.
#Post#: 74380--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - Bus Lane - Uxbridge Road, WestEaling (Westward) (U)
- Bailiff Stage
DIR By: mundodisco8
Date: June 2, 2025, 2:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
Thanks for your help and taking time to read through my post.
I contacted the debt collectors to inform them that I am in the
process to request an out of time challenge and asked them to
pause the process until I hear back from the TEC until we get
the resolution to the challenge. As I said in my post, I've done
that as I had a similar situation before, and both the
collection agency agreed to pause the collection while the
challenge was processed, and Ealing Council accepted to move it
back to the PCN phase. Maybe I got lucky?
You say that it seems like I "don't have a good reason" to do
this challenge. Why do you say that?
Is the general advice to pay the debt collector now and then do
the out-of-time challenge? Would the debt collector return the
money? Companies are quite allergic to returning money once you
have given it to them :D
#Post#: 74382--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - Bus Lane - Uxbridge Road, WestEaling (Westward) (U)
- Bailiff Stage
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 2, 2025, 2:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
From your video still the date of the PCN is 28 September 2023.
What date did you move
What date did you update the logbook
I wouldn't trust anything a bailiff says.
Ealing has form in chasing things up late - sometimes 4 to 5
years - so there may be something in that.
#Post#: 74387--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - Bus Lane - Uxbridge Road, WestEaling (Westward) (U)
- Bailiff Stage
DIR By: mundodisco8
Date: June 2, 2025, 3:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I moved to Ealing on November 2021, and noticed my logbook was
not updated, and updated it, on April 2024.
I understand that no matter what, at the end of the day, the
fault is mine, as I didn't update the logbook. I am looking for
a bit of understanding and lenience from the council, really, as
this is such a silly mistake. All the other car paperwork was
pointing to the right address, and the council has my contact
details, to be fair, as obviously live here and pay council tax
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Same thing with the PNC. I mean, i was obviously in the bus
lane, the pic is clear, but it's one of those situations where
there was clearly no intent to beat the traffic or block a bus,
and I'm pretty sure I was just getting in place for the next
crossing... but I guess that everyone here see themselves as
rightous people that deserve their PNCs getting revoked ;D
Anyway, thanks again!
#Post#: 74395--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - Bus Lane - Uxbridge Road, WestEaling (Westward) (U)
- Bailiff Stage
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: June 2, 2025, 4:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
IMO, pay the debt as it stands and don't mess around.
If the OOT application which apparently you're 'in the process
to request' is accepted, then your payment would be refunded.
If not, then you've minimised your losses.
This is not the time to play around with 'what ifs' as in 'what
if they'd been an ambulance' (the answer to which is it is NOT a
defence).
You have the option of not paying and submitting an OOT which
would stop enforcement, but this runs the risk that if TEC
reject then £235 could be instantly added to the debt.
Why take this risk?
4 days to provide procedural info here - the specifics of the
contravention are not relevant at present - so:
Date of contravention;
RK's address at this time;
Date of issue of PCN;
Date RK moved;
Was mail forwarding put in place?
To raise just a few issues.
#Post#: 74428--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - Bus Lane - Uxbridge Road, WestEaling (Westward) (U)
- Bailiff Stage
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 2, 2025, 6:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, you are just the latest in a very long line of people on
here who fail to update their V5C Registration Certificate when
moving house, yours being not updated for over three years
according to your narrative. For me, this is a consequence of
the abolition of the old tax discs, because address was very
important when these had to be displayed on ghe vehicle, but we
are where we are, I'm afraid.
Sorry to have to tell you, but cases like yours are very
difficult to overturn and get back to the PCN stage. In order to
get the process reverted, you would have to submit an
Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration, and it is the form that
requests that the SD be submitted OOT that is the problem,
because TEC pass the submission to the enforcing council who are
entitled to object to it, and they invariably do so. At this
point the TEC court officer will reject your submission. You can
then request a review of the decision by a county court judge,
but this is not cost free. A review on the papers costs, (I
think) about £130, and an interview with the judge about £400.
These sums are not recoverable even if you get the matter
reverted, because the council have followed the legal
enforcement process under which all statutory documents are sent
to the address on the V5C.
This is why we recommend with the debt you have, to pay-up, to
avoid it increasing. If your SD submission is accepted, you get
back all but the PCN penalty. This remains outstanding, but you
can submit reps against it, or pay it.
#Post#: 74467--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - Bus Lane - Uxbridge Road, WestEaling (Westward) (U)
- Bailiff Stage
DIR By: mundodisco8
Date: June 3, 2025, 2:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Fantastic! All clear!
Again, thanks for taking the time to help me with this one, I
really appreciate it. I hope I didn't come as too whinny. I'll
do as you recommend.
Cheers!
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 1