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#Post#: 74268--------------------------------------------------
NIP received - potential totting up ban
DIR By: JungleMan
Date: June 2, 2025, 5:06 am
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I know this is all irrelevant but figure I'll include it anyway:
Until 5 months ago, I had a completely clean license. I then
received 3 Nips in quick succession (all for driving on the M4
in newport at between 52-57 mph in the 50 zone on the M4). One
resulted in a speed awareness course, and I got two lot's of 3
points. Then in February, I received another NIP for driving
57mph in a 50 this time on the M5 in worcestershire - another 3
points.
I now drive very cautiously, and ensure not to push my speed, so
I was very surprised to receive another NIP in the post
yesterday. Again, for driving at 57mph in the 50 zone in newport
(at 6:30 am on a sunday - not that it really matters!). Now, I
doubt I could argue with average speed cameras - but I do recall
the journey, and recall sitting at 50, and even remember feeling
slightly relieved as I got to the end of the zone (because it's
quite hard keeping your speed to 50 on a deserted motorway). To
say I'm gutted is an understatement, and whilst I get the law is
black and white, it kind of feels a bit remiss that such small
margins are being pursued, and resulting in a possible ban - is
that really in the public interest?
Obviously, that's not an argument I can win... so realistically,
what are my options? Complete the NIP, wait for the summons -
then what? I'd struggle to prove exceptional hardship - I run my
own business which does require me to attend client meetings,
but I understand that isn't really exceptional hardship. I do
have a family (3 kids) - but my wife drives (although she works
long hours), so arguing that they can't get to clubs and events
isn't really valid. Is this a lost cause?
#Post#: 74276--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received - potential totting up ban
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: June 2, 2025, 5:28 am
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--- Quote from: JungleMan link ---
>
> it kind of feels a bit remiss that such small margins are
being pursued, and resulting in a possible ban - is that really
in the public interest?
>
--- End Quote ---
10% + 2mph before action is taken. Not such a small margin.
But as you hint, how the points are gained is irrelevant to an
EH plea.
--- Quote from: JungleMan link ---
>
> Obviously, that's not an argument I can win... so
realistically, what are my options? Complete the NIP, wait for
the summons - then what?
>
--- End Quote ---
Basically. Even if they do offer a fixed penalty, you cannot
accept it (as one of the conditions is not totting). Then
attend court to submit your EH plea.
--- Quote from: JungleMan link ---
>
> I'd struggle to prove exceptional hardship - I run my own
business which does require me to attend client meetings, but I
understand that isn't really exceptional hardship. I do have a
family (3 kids) - but my wife drives (although she works long
hours), so arguing that they can't get to clubs and events isn't
really valid. Is this a lost cause?
>
--- End Quote ---
There's nothing to be lost in submitting a plea.
Here’s Magistrates’ guidance when dealing with such a plea:
When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid a
totting up disqualification the court should have regard to the
following:
It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof
that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this
will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence
is given, it must be sworn.
Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court
must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or
hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have
evidence.
Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person
disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the
deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the
preventative effect of the order not to drive.
If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the
risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can
take this circumstance into account.
Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of
exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives
(including alternative means of transport) for avoiding
exceptional hardship are not viable.
Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a
driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment
would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient
to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will
depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences
of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others.
So you need to demonstrate that the hardship you and/or others
will suffer is over and above that would be suffered by other
drivers. You will need to explain why you think the
consequences of a ban are “exceptional” (bearing in mind the
above guidance). Bear in mind that you will have had some time
to investigate such possibilities and the court will expect you
to have investigated the possibility thoroughly.
#Post#: 74284--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received - potential totting up ban
DIR By: JungleMan
Date: June 2, 2025, 5:39 am
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--- Quote from: JustLoveCars link ---
>
> [quote author=JungleMan link=topic=6588.msg74268#msg74268
date=1748858795]
> it kind of feels a bit remiss that such small margins are
being pursued, and resulting in a possible ban - is that really
in the public interest?
>
--- End Quote ---
10% + 2mph before action is taken. Not such a small margin.
But as you hint, how the points are gained is irrelevant to an
EH plea.
[/quote]
Maybe - but less so my previous ones for 52mph and 54mph... I
kind of wish I'd fought those now rather than just accepting the
points/course.
Thank you for your response.
#Post#: 74292--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received - potential totting up ban
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: June 2, 2025, 6:12 am
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--- Quote from: JungleMan link ---
>
> Maybe - but less so my previous ones for 52mph and 54mph... I
kind of wish I'd fought those now rather than just accepting the
points/course.
>
--- End Quote ---
Something doesn't add up here - you wouldn't receive NIP's for
52 and 54 in 50mph limit.
#Post#: 74300--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received - potential totting up ban
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: June 2, 2025, 7:30 am
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We have often seen on here claims of action being taken for
speeding below the police guidance of (Limit + 10% +2mph). There
has never been, as far as I am aware, any evidence to support
those claims.
Do you have any paperwork which could substantiate those
speeds/limits which you could post up? If the police have begun
enforcement below the thresholds they are said to use, it would
help us advise others.
#Post#: 74485--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received - potential totting up ban
DIR By: BertB
Date: June 3, 2025, 4:10 am
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Yeah I think we need to see this. However Gwent police state
they use 10%+2 as a threshold. From a recent FOI request for the
Newport section of the M4
--- Quote ---
> at what average speed do the cameras prosecute drivers? Is it
the same as
> the standard police leeway of 10% +2, so above 57mph?
> Yes, the tolerance is 10% +1, prosecution begins at 10%+2
--- End Quote ---
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