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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 73934--------------------------------------------------
NIP: photos don't show VRM
DIR By: VBScab
Date: May 30, 2025, 8:59 am
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I have received a NIP (25mph in a 20mph limit area). I was the
driver.
The 2 photos taken by the camera (at night) show just the rear
plate as a yellow blob: the VRM is illegible in both. I have
attached the 2nd image for reference.
There is an additional image provided which is zoomed-in and
clearly "enhanced" but even then the initial letter, for
example, could be mistaken for another, the quality is that
poor.
- Do I return the NIP with my details? Is that an admission of
guilt?
- If so, what happens afterwards if I want to dispute the
image's clarity?
- Can I ask for unretouched/non-enhanced images which show the
VRM in legible form?
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 73936--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP: photos don't show VRM
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: May 30, 2025, 9:11 am
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--- Quote ---
> - Do I return the NIP with my details?
--- End Quote ---
Yes, you must. If you do not you will commit a separate offence
which carries six points.
--- Quote ---
> Is that an admission of guilt?
--- End Quote ---
No.
--- Quote ---
> - If so, what happens afterwards if I want to dispute the
image's clarity?
--- End Quote ---
You will need o decline (or ignore) any out-of-court offers the
police may make (you will probably be offered a course for that
speed). You will then be prosecuted in court where you will have
to plead Not Guilty.
--- Quote ---
> - Can I ask for unretouched/non-enhanced images which show the
VRM in legible form?
--- End Quote ---
You can ask for anything you like (noting that such a request
does not stop the clock on the 28 days you have to respond to
the request for driver's details). But you are unlikely to get
anything more than you already have.
I don't quite see where you are coming from here. The police
obviously have correctly identified your vehicle because you
seem to accept that it was yours and that you were at the
location at the time.
So what will your defence be to the speeding charge if you are
prosecuted?
#Post#: 73938--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP: photos don't show VRM
DIR By: VBScab
Date: May 30, 2025, 9:36 am
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Where I'm coming from is that the camera photos do not show the
VRM, nor indeed any characters at all. In my view, the evidence
has been tampered with.
My initial thought was that yes, the VRM in the NIP is indeed of
my vehicle but how that has been arrived at from what are
clearly illegible photos is very much open to question. Surely
the police need to provide irrefutable, unadulterated proof and
an "enhanced" image is not that.
#Post#: 73941--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP: photos don't show VRM
DIR By: 666
Date: May 30, 2025, 9:55 am
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--- Quote from: VBScab link ---
>
> Where I'm coming from is that the camera photos do not show
the VRM, nor indeed any characters at all. In my view, the
evidence has been tampered with.
>
> My initial thought was that yes, the VRM in the NIP is indeed
of my vehicle but how that has been arrived at from what are
clearly illegible photos is very much open to question. Surely
the police need to provide irrefutable, unadulterated proof and
an "enhanced" image is not that.
>
--- End Quote ---
The police have no obligation to provide any evidence at all at
this stage. They must have a legible image in order to have
tracked you down, and that will undoubtedly be produced in
evidence should you opt to go to court.
#Post#: 73942--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP: photos don't show VRM
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: May 30, 2025, 9:57 am
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--- Quote from: VBScab link ---
>
> Where I'm coming from is that the camera photos do not show
the VRM, nor indeed any characters at all. In my view, the
evidence has been tampered with.
>
> My initial thought was that yes, the VRM in the NIP is indeed
of my vehicle but how that has been arrived at from what are
clearly illegible photos is very much open to question. Surely
the police need to provide irrefutable, unadulterated proof and
an "enhanced" image is not that.
>
--- End Quote ---
Bear in mind you haven't been sent evidential material at this
stage. It's just a photo to show the vehicle and the alleged
offence.
If you want to see that then you can reject any disposal offer
(course/fixed penalty) and take the matter to court as is your
right. (But it can get very expensive if you take the matter to
trial and are convicted)
#Post#: 73952--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP: photos don't show VRM
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: May 30, 2025, 10:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Where I'm coming from is that the camera photos do not show
the VRM, nor indeed any characters at all. In my view, the
evidence has been tampered with.
--- End Quote ---
As above, what you have is not necessarily the evidence they
will intend to rely on to convict you.
They have no obligation to send you anything at this stage,
other than the NIP and the request for driver's details. So
imagine that's all you had. When you respond to that request you
will have two choices. You will have to say that either:
1. You were the driver of that vehicle at that time and place or
2. You cannot identify the driver.
If you opt for (1) you may find it a little difficult to
persuade the court that you cannot be guilty because the police
cannot show it was your vehicle. Apart from anything else, they
will have a statement from you confirming you were driving your
vehicle at the time and place specified.
If you opt for (2) you will be prosecuted for failing to
provide the driver's details (FtP) and the speeding matter
becomes irrelevant. Defending the FtP charge may be a bit tricky
because it was your car and you were driving it at the time and
place mentioned. Of course you could ignore the request entirely
then the result will be the same.
The police have clearly identified your vehicle correctly. They
haven't simply picked your name out of a hat. You need to accept
that and move on.
#Post#: 73962--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP: photos don't show VRM
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: May 30, 2025, 11:52 am
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--- Quote from: VBScab link ---
>
> Where I'm coming from is that the camera photos do not show
the VRM, nor indeed any characters at all. In my view, the
evidence has been tampered with.
>
> My initial thought was that yes, the VRM in the NIP is indeed
of my vehicle but how that has been arrived at from what are
clearly illegible photos is very much open to question. Surely
the police need to provide irrefutable, unadulterated proof and
an "enhanced" image is not that.
>
--- End Quote ---
You seem to have some very funny ideas about evidence. There’s
nothing intrinsically wrong with enhancing (or “tampering with”
in your words) a photo, nor does it somehow make it unreliable
as evidence.
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