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#Post#: 74353--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or
clearway), O/S Greencourt HSE, Mile End Road E1
DIR By: flash2005
Date: June 2, 2025, 12:03 pm
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> It would be helpful if you told us if you are the driver or
not, for statutory PCNs it's counter-productive to hide the
identity of the driver as the owner is liable no matter who was
driving.
>
> It's also unclear what exactly the purpose of stopping was in
the first place, did the driver for example switch the car off
and on again? Did they manage to fix the error before driving
off?
>
> Another angle is the one illustrated Ayman Labib v Transport
for London (2240513624, 18 January 2025)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gq3Sj0X_O6SYNWwFj-2u_MTvpEWPhDF5/view.
>
> I'll also drop you a PM in case you'd like me to represent you
at the tribunal.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, I was the driver of the vehicle. The purpose of stopping
was to investigate the sudden noise coming from the AC vents.
So I pulled over, I checked a few settings in the car, and
wasn't able to get it to stop, so switched everything off and
then within 3 minutes started again. I wasn't able to fix the
error, but visited the service centre the next day to resolve
the issue.
#Post#: 74361--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or
clearway), O/S Greencourt HSE, Mile End Road E1
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 2, 2025, 12:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
What sort of noise, and why did you feel it necessary to pull
over? Couldn't you have just turned the fan off while you were
driving along?
#Post#: 74386--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or
clearway), O/S Greencourt HSE, Mile End Road E1
DIR By: flash2005
Date: June 2, 2025, 3:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> What sort of noise, and why did you feel it necessary to pull
over? Couldn't you have just turned the fan off while you were
driving along?
>
--- End Quote ---
It was a loud popping noise, almost like a tyre had blown out.
It was hard to figure out the reason for the noise while
driving. Also on EVs there are no buttons so you have to go into
the touchscreen menus to turn off the AC, so not straightforward
while driving and it actually could be dangerous.
#Post#: 74389--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or
clearway), O/S Greencourt HSE, Mile End Road E1
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 2, 2025, 3:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well you have arguable grounds to appeal, as I've said I've sent
you a PM
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=pm
in case you'd like me to
represent you.
#Post#: 74495--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or
clearway), O/S Greencourt HSE, Mile End Road E1
DIR By: flash2005
Date: June 3, 2025, 4:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> Well you have arguable grounds to appeal, as I've said I've
sent you a PM
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=pm
in case you'd like me to
represent you.
>
--- End Quote ---
I would like to represent myself if it goes to that level. Can
I get some help in the representation please ? Based on the
example these are the 3 arguments used.
1. Failure to Properly Identify the Registered Keeper
2. Misleading Information Regarding Payment and Charge
Certificate Timelines
3. Disproportionate Case Summary / Evidence Bundle
#Post#: 74584--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or
clearway), O/S Greencourt HSE, Mile End Road E1
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 3, 2025, 12:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't understand points 1 and 3, there is only one obviously
arguable ground, unless something useful emerges from the
evidence pack. You have the rationale of adjudicator Anderson's
decision so I suggest you write something based on that.
I also don't understand what you mean by "if it goes to that
level", you're already at that level, the only alternative is to
give up and pay.
#Post#: 74650--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or
clearway), O/S Greencourt HSE, Mile End Road E1
DIR By: flash2005
Date: June 3, 2025, 3:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> I don't understand points 1 and 3, there is only one obviously
arguable ground, unless something useful emerges from the
evidence pack. You have the rationale of adjudicator Anderson's
decision so I suggest you write something based on that.
>
> I also don't understand what you mean by "if it goes to that
level", you're already at that level, the only alternative is to
give up and pay.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ok, Will go ahead with No 2 as the appeal rationale. Will they
sent a notice to keeper ?
#Post#: 74654--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or
clearway), O/S Greencourt HSE, Mile End Road E1
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 3, 2025, 4:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: flash2005 link ---
>
> Ok, Will go ahead with No 2 as the appeal rationale. Will
they sent a notice to keeper ?
>
--- End Quote ---
There is no such thing as a "notice to keeper" under the
legislation. You need to re-read the notice of rejection, it
clearly explains the next steps. You have 28 days to pay the
penalty or appeal to the tribunal, there is no other choice /
option.
If they have provided an appeal form then great, if not then
just make your own notice of appeal, make sure to include
everything required by paragraph 2(2) of Schedule 1 to The Civil
Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and
Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/576/schedule/1/paragraph/2<br
/>and email it to queries@londontribunals.org.uk together with a
copy of the notice of rejection. Make sure to request a hearing.
#Post#: 74659--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or
clearway), O/S Greencourt HSE, Mile End Road E1
DIR By: flash2005
Date: June 3, 2025, 4:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=flash2005 link=topic=6507.msg74650#msg74650
date=1748983398]
> Ok, Will go ahead with No 2 as the appeal rationale. Will
they sent a notice to keeper ?
>
--- End Quote ---
There is no such thing as a "notice to keeper" under the
legislation. You need to re-read the notice of rejection, it
clearly explains the next steps. You have 28 days to pay the
penalty or appeal to the tribunal, there is no other choice /
option.
If they have provided an appeal form then great, if not then
just make your own notice of appeal, make sure to include
everything required by paragraph 2(2) of Schedule 1 to The Civil
Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and
Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/576/schedule/1/paragraph/2<br
/>and email it to queries@londontribunals.org.uk together with a
copy of the notice of rejection. Make sure to request a hearing.
[/quote]
I was reading the appeal - Ayman Labib v Transport for London
(2240513624, 18 January 2025). The wording mentioned in my PCN
is different than what was mentioned in this 18th January case.
Are you sure this rationale is applicable for my case regarding
procedural impropriety ?
From the same appeal it mentions this statement, but it is not
present in my PCN
""You should now make full payment for the outstanding PCN(s)
within 28
days of the service of this Notice. The amount(s) currently due
is set out
below. For those PCNs held at the discounted penalty charge
amount, we
will provide you a further 14 days beginning with the date of
this notice to
pay and close the PCN at that rate. If the PCN(s) remain unpaid
after this
14-day period, the penalty charge due will revert to the
standard penalty
charge amount as stated on the PCN."
At the bottom of the NoR it is written, "Outstanding Balance:
£80"."
#Post#: 74666--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or
clearway), O/S Greencourt HSE, Mile End Road E1
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 3, 2025, 4:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Look at the fourth paragraph of the second page of the NoR. Also
nowhere does the NoR tell you what the statutory amount is.
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