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#Post#: 73214--------------------------------------------------
TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
DIR By: BertieBath
Date: May 25, 2025, 12:53 pm
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Hi all,
I’ve received a TfL PCN for allegedly breaching the 2-tonne
unladen weight restriction in the Rotherhithe Tunnel, while
driving a 2008 VW Crafter (SWB) during rush hour.
Key Points:
• My vehicle’s unladen weight is approx. 2,030 kg — just
over the limit, but I was genuinely unaware at the time. I was
driving alone, with no passengers or cargo.
• I remember seeing multiple signs about the 2m height/width
restrictions, but nothing that clearly indicated a weight limit.
Having now reviewed Google Maps, I can see there is a sign, but
it’s a small “2t” inside a lorry icon, which is not really clear
or obvious for drivers (especially coming from the big
roundabout south of the tunnel during rush hour).
• The van passed through the 2m barriers without issue,
reinforcing the impression that my vehicle was fully compliant.
I know this topic has come up before, but every case is
different and I’d be hugely grateful for advice on:
• Whether the signage meets regulatory standards, especially
in terms of visibility and clarity.
• Any technical or legal grounds I might raise in my
representation to TfL (e.g. signage inadequacy, traffic order
issues, procedural flaws).
Evidence:
• PCN:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/USHI5Ax
• Tunnel signage:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/9eeAIWs
Thanks so much in advance!
Bertie
#Post#: 73217--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: May 25, 2025, 1:20 pm
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These are hard to challenge. There are advance signs on the main
roads and you know the unladen weight.
That said there may be issues with TFL PCNs - someone else will
know if they include tunnel PCNs.
#Post#: 73229--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
DIR By: BertieBath
Date: May 25, 2025, 2:52 pm
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Thanks for the reply. I understand these can be tough to
challenge, but I wonder if we could focus on whether the
mandatory restriction signs are indeed compliant in terms of
placement and visibility.
Given there are two lanes entering the tunnel, can anyone
advise:
(1) Are weight/width/height restriction signs legally required
to appear on both sides of the carriageway?
(2) What are the minimum size/dimensions for a 2t unladen weight
restriction sign under TSRGD or DfT guidance?
And does embedding the “2t” inside a lorry icon meet the
required clarity and prominence for mandatory restrictions (as
it is surrounded by other restrictions)?
Grateful for any further insight on this.
#Post#: 73235--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 25, 2025, 4:32 pm
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Well, as far as I am aware, the signs must comply with this : -
The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/contents/made
I've had a look through this, and cannot find the weight limit
sign you mention, maybe I have missed something
In addition to the above, councils and TfL are obliged to follow
this too : -
The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and
Wales) Regulations 1996
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/contents
in particular, Regulation 18 in Part III Making an Order
A weight restriction sign would normally be a white background
with a red circle and a truck symbol inside it in black with the
weight restriction in white numbers.
I am strongly tempted to think that the sign you mention is not
at all adequate to convey the restriction, but I'm not an
expert, so hopefully, somebody will be along to expand on what I
have said.
#Post#: 73237--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: May 25, 2025, 4:41 pm
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You can check the tribunal register but if the signage were
deficient we'd know about it.
Typical adjudications say:
The sign is that prescribed by Diagram 622.1A at Item 13 in Part
2 of Schedule 3 to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General
Directions 2016, being a permitted variant thereof, as
indicating ‘goods vehicles exceeding the maximum gross weight
indicated prohibited’. The sign is also illustrated in the
current edition of the Official Highway Code.
---------
On the appellant's case, the symbol on signage showed a Luton
van. This vehicle was much smaller. Had it been shown on signage
he would not have entered the tunnel.
I was satisfied, on the decided cases, that the authority's
signage was clear and correct. Notwithstanding the symbol of the
vehicle shown on it, the 2 tonne maximum weight restriction was
I found clearly stated.
#Post#: 73240--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
DIR By: BertieBath
Date: May 25, 2025, 4:51 pm
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Thanks both. I agree the 2t sign is not at all adequate to
convey the restriction - it's small and surrounded by too many
other signs. The Luton Van is simply misleading.
I’ll take a proper look at the signage references you've pointed
out and will also check the Tribunal Register for similar cases.
In the meantime, does anyone happen to know if tunnels are
subject to any additional requirements for signage or
restrictions? I'm particularly curious about:
Whether overhead signs are required for tunnels or dual-lane
approaches?
Also just wondering — in cases where signs were technically
compliant but poorly placed, obscured by traffic, or not
duplicated across lanes, has anyone come across a PCN being
overturned at adjudication on those grounds?
#Post#: 73241--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 25, 2025, 4:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I was wrong, the sign I was thinking of is a different
one, which I'm sure I had seen of a blue background rectangle
with the truck and weight symbol on it. Oh dear, I must be more
alert as the signage does seem to be all compliant !
However, is having an enormous sign array on a board like that,
"adequate", the requirement in LATOR Regulation 18 ? Clearly
London Tribunal adjudicators think it is. But of course they're
not running round London in fairly small vans !
#Post#: 73249--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
DIR By: BertieBath
Date: May 25, 2025, 11:39 pm
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Totally agree that the key test here is adequacy,
More images to consider:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/ZuiBX7d
Looking again at the approach signage, I’d argue the 2t weight
limit fails the adequacy test for several reasons:
- It’s small, non-standalone, and buried among over 12
regulatory signs on a cluttered board. There’s no visual
emphasis (compared to the bold 2.0m restrictions that dominate
the layout)
- There’s no duplication of the 2t sign for drivers in the
left-hand lane. In real traffic, it’s obscured by taller
vehicles or queueing traffic.
- Driver attention is already maxed out. Between the overhead
gantry, height panels, boom barriers, speed limit signs, average
speed camera warnings, and diverging lanes, it becomes
impossible to spot and interpret the weight restriction in time
to take action.
- The actual tunnel entrance is well beyond the initial signage
and barrier. The “restrictions ahead” board appears at the
narrowing. But once you’ve passed the barrier system, you’re
fully committed, with no physical or legal way to turn around.
The 2.0m height restriction is repeated on the archway above the
tunnel. But there’s no repetition of the 2t weight limit at the
tunnel entrance — where the actual restriction would logically
apply.
Can I reasonably argue that the sign clutter board is advisory
only, and not a valid placement of a mandatory regulatory sign,
as required under TSRGD Direction 8 and LATOR Regulation 18?
#Post#: 73258--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 26, 2025, 4:22 am
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You can argue what you like, but given the lack of successful
appeals on this point(take it as read that your* formal reps
would be rejected) you would be taking a risk.
The LATOR signage obligation as regards an authority is
'adequacy' ('...the placing on or near the road of such traffic
signs in such positions as the order making authority may
consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to
the effect of the order is made available to persons using the
road;')
Unladen weight is irrelevant, where did you get the idea from
that a vehicle's actual weight was the test?
'Goods vehicles exceeding the maximum gross weight indicated
prohibited'
From what I can see, the sign has the same shape (to represent a
generic goods vehicle) as in the regs(item 13).
If you have time, here's the Traffic Signs Manual
-
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
I don't know what argument is made for the restriction, but it's
interesting to note the distinction in the TSM between
'structural' weight limit signs and the one here which is
'environmental'. If they argue that the restriction's purpose is
structural than it's the wrong sign IMO (see Schedule 9), a
vehicle symbol is not prescribed, neither is '2t'.
May be others know the standard rejection response in these
situations.
#Post#: 73263--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
DIR By: baroudeur
Date: May 26, 2025, 5:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: BertieBath link ---
>
>
>
> More images to consider:
>
HTML https://imgur.com/a/ZuiBX7d
>
> - Driver attention is already maxed out. Between the overhead
gantry, height panels, boom barriers, speed limit signs, average
speed camera warnings, and diverging lanes, it becomes
impossible to spot and interpret the weight restriction in time
to take action.
>
> - The actual tunnel entrance is well beyond the initial
signage and barrier. The “restrictions ahead” board appears at
the narrowing. But once you’ve passed the barrier system, you’re
fully committed, with no physical or legal way to turn around.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Should the restriction be seen at the last moment there is an
escape route for restricted vehicles clearly signed
HTML https://tinyurl.com/4vz74s79
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