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#Post#: 73071--------------------------------------------------
NCP - Not Parked Correctly - Crewe Railway Station Car Park
DIR By: V12Orange
Date: May 24, 2025, 8:45 am
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I have received two PCN's through the post from NCP in regard to
a vehicle which is registered to my address, no further
communication has been received until two letters from ZZPS were
received at the registered keepers address today claiming a £70
admin fee had been added to the original £100 charge.
For context the vehicle was parked for a total of three days in
the same location within the carpark, a PCN was issued on the
first day the car was parked and a second PCN was issued on the
third day that the car was parked. To confirm the car did not
move during this 3 day period. The correct fee for the period
parked was paid on exiting the car park.
Both the PCN's claim the vehicle was "Not Parked Correctly" the
pictures included in the PCN show the vehicle is parked in a bay
between two white lines, no No parking signs are displayed, no
marking on the floor are displayed, no restricted parking signs
are displayed.
Any advice as to what to do on this rather strange situation
would be greatly appreciated.
#Post#: 73085--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP - Not Parked Correctly - Crewe Railway Station Car Park
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: May 24, 2025, 9:51 am
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Welcome to FTLA.
To help us provide the best advice, please read the following
thread carefully and provide as much of the information it asks
for as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking
Charges Forum guide
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/
#Post#: 73129--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP - Not Parked Correctly - Crewe Railway Station Car Park
DIR By: b789
Date: May 24, 2025, 4:33 pm
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I tis almost certainly a fact that the car park at Crewe train
station car park, is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA.
This means that the Keeper of the vehicle cannot be liable for
the charge. Only the unknown (to NCP) driver can be liable and
the Keeper is under no legal obligation to identify the driver
to an unregulated private parking company.
Without seeing the postal Notice to Keeper (NtK) or the Notice
to Driver (NtD) if it was affixed to the vehicle windscreen, we
cannot advise further.
The only thing you must do, is completely ignore ZZPS and any
other debt collector that tries to communicate with you. ZZPS
and all other debt collectors are powerless to do anything
except to try and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible
tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear. Never, ever, ever
enter into communication with a powerless and useless debt
collector.
Once we can see the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) we can then
confirm what you need to do. It is too late to appeal but you
can make a formal complaint to NCP and basically tell them to
cease and desist as they cannot pursue the known Keeper.
#Post#: 73142--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP - Not Parked Correctly - Crewe Railway Station Car Park
DIR By: V12Orange
Date: May 24, 2025, 9:29 pm
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--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> I tis almost certainly a fact that the car park at Crewe train
station car park, is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA.
This means that the Keeper of the vehicle cannot be liable for
the charge. Only the unknown (to NCP) driver can be liable and
the Keeper is under no legal obligation to identify the driver
to an unregulated private parking company.
>
> Without seeing the postal Notice to Keeper (NtK) or the Notice
to Driver (NtD) if it was affixed to the vehicle windscreen, we
cannot advise further.
>
> The only thing you must do, is completely ignore ZZPS and any
other debt collector that tries to communicate with you. ZZPS
and all other debt collectors are powerless to do anything
except to try and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible
tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear. Never, ever, ever
enter into communication with a powerless and useless debt
collector.
>
> Once we can see the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) we can then
confirm what you need to do. It is too late to appeal but you
can make a formal complaint to NCP and basically tell them to
cease and desist as they cannot pursue the known Keeper.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for the preliminary advice, please see below redacted
copy of the PCN notice, both are identical apart from the date
of issue, same reason, etc. Any further advice as to how i
respond would be very gratefully received.
[img]
HTML https://imgur.com/a/kbBcB81[/img]
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 73144--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP - Not Parked Correctly - Crewe Railway Station Car Park
DIR By: b789
Date: May 24, 2025, 10:00 pm
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Repost that NtK leaving EVERYTHING visible except your personal
information and the PCN number. WE need to ALL dates and times.
#Post#: 73166--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP - Not Parked Correctly - Crewe Railway Station Car Park
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 25, 2025, 5:38 am
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+1, and all pages of at least one parking charge notice to
keeper.
Also, one of the ZZPS letters. The reason I say this is because
what you've posted does not comply with PoFA therefore liability
cannot be transferred to the keeper (and the wording of ZZPS's
letter might acknowledge this, albeit buried in legal-sounding
mumbo-jumbo) but whether this is by INTENT or a MISTAKE or
DECEIT we won't know for certain until we see the full notice.
#Post#: 73174--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP - Not Parked Correctly - Crewe Railway Station Car Park
DIR By: b789
Date: May 25, 2025, 6:15 am
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Anything from ZZPS, GCTT or their ilk, is not required. They are
not a party to anything. They are totally powerless,
irrespective of what they put in their letters. There can be
nothing in a debt collectors letter that has any weight behind
it, whatsoever.
We know that the location is not relevant land. We also know
that the NtK is not PoFA compliant, even if it was relevant
land. All we need to see is the dates and times on the NtK, in
order to confirm other points of failure to comply with PoFA.
For this reason, I do not encourage anyone to waste server space
and bandwidth by uploading images of documents that have no
bearing on these cases.
#Post#: 73183--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP - Not Parked Correctly - Crewe Railway Station Car Park
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 25, 2025, 7:35 am
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from ZZPS, GCTT or their ilk, is not required. They are not a
party to anything. They are totally powerless, irrespective of
what they put in their letters. There can be nothing in a debt
collectors letter that has any weight behind it, whatsoever.
We're not talking procedural effect, we're looking for
indicators in the wording that what would be argued is already
accepted by the creditor, on whose behalf, of course, ZZPS act.
And as agents of the creditor whatever is included can be
attributed to the creditor. The fact that the letter might be
extra-procedural does not render it unnecessary to review, IMO.
OP, PM a copy to me if posting causes problems.
#Post#: 73299--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP - Not Parked Correctly - Crewe Railway Station Car Park
DIR By: V12Orange
Date: May 26, 2025, 10:36 am
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Hopefully this is what is needed.
The other PCN is identical except for the date, as per my
original post the car was parked for a total of 3 consecutive
days and the correct fee was paid on exiting the car park. The
vehicle was not moved during this period. Are NCP permitted to
issue a second PCN after the first despite the vehicle not
moving?
Both letters from ZZPS are identical with the exception of the
dates which match the dates on the NCP PCN'S.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 73307--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP - Not Parked Correctly - Crewe Railway Station Car Park
DIR By: b789
Date: May 26, 2025, 11:59 am
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Whilst it is too late to appeal, you can submit a formal
complaint to NCP about the fact that they are sending you, the
Keeper, notices that you cannot be liable for.
Send a formal complaint using their webform here:
HTML https://www.ncp.co.uk/help-centre/contact-us/
Just copy and paste the following:
--- Quote ---
> To: National Car Parks Ltd (NCP)
> Subject: Formal Complaint and Appeal – Parking Charge Notice
[Insert PCN Number]
> Vehicle Registration: [Insert VRM]
> Date of Notice: 19/03/2025
> Location: Crewe Railway Station
>
> Dear Sir or Madam,
>
> I am the Registered Keeper of the above vehicle and write to
lodge a formal complaint concerning the above Parking Charge
Notice (PCN), which was recently received at my address.
Pursuant to Section 11.2 of the Private Parking Single Code of
Practice (Version 1.1, 17 February 2025), this complaint must
also be treated as an appeal.
>
> 1. No Keeper Liability – Land Not Relevant Under PoFA
>
> Crewe Railway Station is not “relevant land” within the
meaning of Paragraph 3 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of
Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), as it is subject to statutory control
by virtue of the Railway Byelaws. Accordingly, you have no
lawful basis to pursue the Keeper of the vehicle for any unpaid
parking charge.
>
> Since you do not know the identity of the driver and I am
under no legal obligation to name them, you must cease pursuing
me as the Registered Keeper.
>
> 2. Your NtK is Non-Compliant with PoFA Even if the Land Were
Relevant
>
> Even if the site were relevant land, your Notice to Keeper
(NtK) is not compliant with the mandatory provisions of
Paragraph 9(2) of Schedule 4 PoFA. In particular:
>
> - It fails to specify the “period of parking” as required by
Paragraph 9(2)(a).
> - A single timestamp does not constitute a period, and the
alleged contravention cannot be established without this.
>
> Your attempt to invoke Keeper liability is therefore unlawful
and without merit.
>
> 3. Vague and Unsupported Allegation – “Not Parked Correctly”
>
> The PCN alleges that the vehicle was “Not Parked Correctly”.
However:
>
> - The photographic evidence clearly shows the vehicle parked
within marked bays, with no indication of any restriction.
> - There is no signage, floor markings, or evidence of terms
being breached.
> - This allegation is vague, unfounded and incapable of forming
a valid contract.
>
> You are put to strict proof of:
>
> - What specific term was allegedly breached,
> - What signage conveyed that term,
> - How it was brought to the attention of the driver.
>
> 4. Abuse of Process – Duplicate PCNs for One Continuous Stay
>
> The vehicle remained stationary for the duration of a
three-day stay. Despite this, you issued a second PCN on the
third day, while the vehicle had not moved since the first. This
represents an unjustified attempt at double recovery for a
single, continuous parking event.
>
> The full fee for the entire stay was paid on exit, consistent
with the terms of the car park. You are therefore attempting to
issue two charges for the same parking session, which is neither
reasonable nor proportionate.
>
> 5. Debt Collection Harassment – Misuse of Keeper Data
>
> Despite the above, the matter has now been passed to ZZPS, and
debt collection letters have been received. This is unacceptable
while the underlying issues remain unresolved.
>
> I hereby demand that NCP:
>
> - Cancel both PCNs in full,
> - Cease and desist all further processing of my personal data,
> - Confirm the erasure of my Keeper data under Article 17 of
the UK GDPR.
>
> If you fail to do so, I will raise a formal complaint to the
DVLA for misuse of Keeper data, to the Information
Commissioner’s Office, and to the British Parking Association
for breach of the Private Parking Single Code of Practice.
>
> I expect confirmation that this complaint has been fully
investigated and that both PCNs have been cancelled. Should you
persist in pursuing this matter, I require a POPLA code so the
matter may be referred for independent adjudication.
>
> Yours faithfully,
>
> [Full Name]
> Registered Keeper
--- End Quote ---
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