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#Post#: 73038--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm -
Hire Firm paid PCN
DIR By: FrenchFlyer
Date: May 24, 2025, 1:43 am
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They have invoiced me a £35 admin fee, and now invoiced me £70
for the parking fine.
They will be unable to take payment for either as the rental was
through a corporate account (no credit card provided), so will
be interesting to see how far they want to press the issue.
#Post#: 73042--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm -
Hire Firm paid PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 24, 2025, 3:28 am
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They will be unable to take payment for either as the rental was
through a corporate account (no credit card provided), so will
be interesting to see how far they want to press the issue.
'Rental was through a corporate account'!
If a corporate account, why write to you if you were only the
driver? If you signed the 'statement of liability' was this
understood as being in your personal capacity or as a person
authorised by the corporate account holder who IMO would then be
the 'hirer'.
If the invoices are in your name and in your personal capacity,
then if you don't pay who's to know Enterprise's next step. Was
the hire subject to the laws of England and Wales or what? But
if to you in the capacity of an authorised representative of the
hirer(corporate account holder) then their next step might be
your employer.
Who is the hirer in law? Was it a company or was it you in your
name?
#Post#: 73052--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm -
Hire Firm paid PCN
DIR By: FrenchFlyer
Date: May 24, 2025, 4:32 am
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My company (of which I am the President) has an account with
Enterprise.
We book the cars for our staff, the staff collect the cars, and
we get an invoice on return.
The rental agreement is always with the renter in their personal
capacity.
Billing of the rental + any unpaid extras (one way fees, fuel,
etc) are invoiced to us at the end of the rental. They don't
give a credit card and we stand as garantor for the damage
excess.
However, any offences (speeding, parking...) plus admin fees are
passed directly on to the driver, our company has no involvement
with them at all. Payment is between the driver and Enterprise
directly.
I don't object to them levying an admin fee (it was in the
contract). What I do object to is their confusing procedure,
whereby they say :
1) Here's a parking fine. We won't pay it, and will pass the
details on to the council. You'll be able to appeal once they
contact you.
Then a couple of weeks later....
2) Actually, it's too much effort to insist you were the hirer,
so we'll just pay it, and sod your right of appeal.
#Post#: 73056--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm -
Hire Firm paid PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 24, 2025, 4:58 am
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We book the cars for our staff, the staff collect the cars, and
we get an invoice on return.
The rental agreement is always with the renter in their personal
capacity.
The company books the cars and yet the rental agreement is with
each person in their personal capacity
!!
Billing of the rental + any unpaid extras (one way fees, fuel,
etc) are invoiced to us at the end of the rental. They don't
give a credit card and we stand as garantor for the damage
excess.
However, any offences (speeding, parking...) plus admin fees are
passed directly on to the driver, our company has no involvement
with them at all. Payment is between the driver and Enterprise
directly.
You cannot require Enterprise to pass to the driver in
regulatory terms, the driver has no standing under the regs.
Your company may do so after having paid the invoice or been
authorised by Enterprise to act on their behalf, but this is a
matter for each employment contract and internal procedures. I
think you're confusing the two. Therefore on the basis of what
you've posted and absent the key documents*, IMO the following
is most likely:
Enterprise tried to pass the buck to the driver under regs
because your contract with them states that your company won't
fund these;
This is not permitted under regs but perhaps Enterprise tried
and were correctly kicked back by the authority who would only
deal with the person who is the hirer under regs.
*- Enterprise's reps and the Notice of Rejection.
#Post#: 73059--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm -
Hire Firm paid PCN
DIR By: FrenchFlyer
Date: May 24, 2025, 5:23 am
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The "hirer" as far as Enterprise are concerned is absolutely the
driver in their individual capacity: they sign the contract and
their details are on the system. Our company is simply a source
of funding for the rental.
When a staff member is caught speeding or committing any other
offence, we (the company) receive no notification at all:
Enterprise contact them directly.
Given we are a French company, this may be different to how it
works in the UK. 90% of our rentals are in France and Belgium,
and where I have incurred a fine (parking or speeding) it has
always been redirected to me personally as the renter.
All of the invoices received from Enterprise thus far have also
been addressed to me personally, at my personal address (no
mention of the company).
I have requested copies of the notice of rejection from
Enterprise, but they are closed on weekends so hopefull they
will reply on Monday.
#Post#: 73067--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm -
Hire Firm paid PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 24, 2025, 7:54 am
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Fine. I'll put the issue of what you describe as 'corporate
rental' to one side for the present and await the docs.
#Post#: 73459--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm -
Hire Firm paid PCN
DIR By: FrenchFlyer
Date: May 27, 2025, 10:54 am
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Hi all,
Some news on this case.
I requested details of the notice of rejection and received the
attached (nonsensical??) email.
They seem utterly clueless as to the specifics of the case and
just seem to cut and paste stock responses to any questions I
ask.
Am I right in thinking that their having paid the fine means I
have no right of appeal ?
Thanks for your help
FF
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 73469--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm -
Hire Firm paid PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 27, 2025, 11:18 am
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This is the company with which you have a 'corporate rental'!
You do not have any rights of appeal to the authority because
you are a legal stranger to proceedings. However, Enterprise say
that 'We have provided you with a letter of authority which you
are required to include with your written appeal correspondence
(you are required to please print the letter if posting your
appeal or add the document to your online appeal).'
Where is this pl? They cannot authorise you to deal with the
authority on your behalf, only theirs.
Everything that Enterprise needed to relieve themselves of
liability and give the authority the power to treat you as the
'owner' you should already have and could provide, namely:
(ii)the person hiring it had signed a statement of liability
acknowledging their liability in respect of any penalty charge
notice served in respect of any relevant road traffic
contravention involving the vehicle during the currency of the
hiring agreement; and,
(7) Where a recipient relies on the ground specified in
paragraph (4)(d), their representations must state the name and
address of the person to whom the vehicle was hired at the
material time.
#Post#: 73471--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm -
Hire Firm paid PCN
DIR By: FrenchFlyer
Date: May 27, 2025, 11:39 am
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Yes, I signed a standard rental agreement with them as I do 3/4
times per month all over Europe.
The "liability for fines" clause is standard for all rentals.
Giving their rather cagey response about the notice of
rejection, I imagine they either incorrectly filed
representations, or sent them out of time.
In all fairness to Enterprise, I have been a loyal customer for
many years and always found their staff in rental branches to be
very efficient.
I think the people dealing with traffic tickets may not be quite
so efficient.
#Post#: 73479--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm -
Hire Firm paid PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 27, 2025, 11:58 am
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I don't think they're being so much cagey as inept.
As advised the Notice to owner has not been dealt with at the
time, therefore issuing agency reissued the fine to Enterprise.
However, when the transfer of liability has been requested the
issuing agency has rejected this as not personal details were
displayed due to GDPR reasons, by sending an Enforcement notice
to Enterprise .
Pretty easy to put the meat on this:
By 'Notice to Owner at the time' they mean PCN on your car;
'not personal details were displayed due to GDPR reasons', is to
misunderstand those and parking regs. By you signing their
contract you would have agreed that your details could be shared
with law enforcement and other entitled agencies in the
applicable country. If they didn't, then that's down to them.
They won't provide you with the NTO because it's addressed to
them!
Where's the letter of authority?
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