DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Private parking tickets
*****************************************************
#Post#: 77716--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: Karl
Date: June 23, 2025, 7:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Okay.
I must confess to be being a little confused then. I thought you
just said that escalating the complaint will not help with my
case.
What advice am I following that will result in our not paying a
penny?
I worry I might have got multiple lines of advice mixed up.
Up to this point, I believe I have followed all of the guidance
so far. Is it now just a case of waiting for the FoI response?
In the meantime, I will search the forum for instructions on the
ICA complaint.
#Post#: 77738--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: b789
Date: June 23, 2025, 9:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Without having to trudge back through the whole thread, please
tell us the status of the PCN? Have you had a response to the
appeal? Did you appeal to the IPC? All the rest about
complaining to the DVLA is because they are the ultimate data
controller of your data and they are shrugging of their
responsibility for that.
You can now make a formal complaint to the ICO since the DVLA
has exhausted their complaints process with the following
points:
[indent]• Article 24 breach: the DVLA, as data controller, has
no effective oversight over post-disclosure use by its KADOE
recipients (e.g. PCS), particularly when those recipients act in
breach of their trade body’s code and the trade body (IPC)
refuses to engage.
• Failure of accountability, transparency, and fair processing.
• Systemic delegation of public responsibility to a private
entity (IPC), which neither engages with the public nor enforces
its own Code.[/indent]
As for the PCN, you do nothing until you receive a Letter of
Claim (LoC), assuming they even send one.
#Post#: 77925--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: Karl
Date: June 24, 2025, 9:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
No appeals submitted yet, neither to PCS nor IPC. Thus far, this
has not been advised, and my general understanding was that this
should be avoided? If that is not correct, then I'm mistaken.
That said, I'm not sure what grounds an appeal would be made on.
You might recall when I began this post it was in the context of
a lost PCN. There has never really been a claim that the parking
charge was not valid, but for the possibility that the company
was operating improperly.
The person who received the notice was parked in a bay that PCS
asserts they should not have.
What would the appeal claim? Something about the actual parking
event, or a claim about non-compliance of the PCN itself?
Brief summary of events up to this point:
1. PCN attached to windscreen - 7 May
2. PCN lost. This thread started.
3. PCN found. Questions raised about the status of PCS.
4. NtK received in mail - 9 June
5. Enquiries submitted to IPC, BPA and DVLA.
6. DVLA confirmed status of PCS - 23 June
7. IPC website observed to have added PCS to AOS list.
Only correspondence sent to IPC thus far was a request to the
general inbox with no reference to this case. No correspondence
has been sent to PCS as of yet.
#Post#: 77967--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: b789
Date: June 24, 2025, 12:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
OK. You can appeal the PCN, but ONLY as the Keeper. They have no
idea who the driver is and there is no legal obligation on the
Keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking
firm.
The PCN is NOT compliant with all the requirements of PoFA to be
able to hold the Keeper liable because they have failed to
comply with paragraph 9(2)(a) of PoFA. There is no "period of
parking" noted on the NtK (or the NtD for that matter).
Appeal with the following:
--- Quote ---
> I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking
charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I
will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your
client landowner.
>
> As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper
of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even
substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no
admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions
can be drawn. PCS has relied on contract law allegations of
breach against the driver only.
>
> The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation
of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable.
PCS have no hope should you ever try to litigate this, so you
are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel
the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
When the rejection comes through, show it to us and we will
provide the advice on how to make an IAS appeal (also likely to
be unsuccessful).
The one thing that is certain, is that this would never make it
all the way to a court hearing because the cannot pursue the
Keeper, only the driver and they have no idea who that is.
#Post#: 78002--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: Karl
Date: June 24, 2025, 2:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you. I shall do that and report back.
For my own understanding only, why can they not pursue the
keeper. In their correspondence (both the initial PCN and the
NtK, if I recall correctly) they explicitly claim that they can
and will do just that. Is this claim purely erroneous?
#Post#: 78041--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: b789
Date: June 24, 2025, 4:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
They have no idea who the driver is unless the Keeper blabs it
to them. The driver is unknown (to them). They cannot pursue the
known Keeper because their NtK does not fully comply with all
the requirements of PoFA 2012.
They can claim as much as they like. You are dealing with a firm
of ex-clamper scammers. Just because they say they can pursue
the Keeper, does not make it a fact that would stand up in
court.
If you really want to understand, then have a read of PoFA 2012
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted<br
/>and Sao of this persuasive appellate case that would be
referred
to if it were ever to get to court (which it won't):
VCS v Edward (2023)
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zra61px7l3if53o3bp9c4/VCS-v-EDWARD-Transcript.pdf?rlkey=bv4bba389nau5qpfglqkpjq5l&st=z9rpbiow&dl=0
#Post#: 78795--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: Karl
Date: June 29, 2025, 11:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The NTK has a section explaining appeals, in which it states
that the appeals period was 28 days from the issuance of the
NTD, and that since that period has lapsed, there is no longer
any recourse to appeal.
This seems to make no sense, since the NTK exists to pursue the
Keeper in the event that the driver does nor respond and cannot
be identified. How is it valid to issue the Keeper with a
charge, which they may well be completely unaware of prior to
the receipt of the NTK, and give them no recourse to appeal?
In any case, visiting the website and entering the reference
number returns the following:
--- Quote ---
> Unfortunately you are unable to appeal this charge. At the
time that the charge was incurred, a Notice to Driver may have
been affixed to the vehicle or sent through the post. This
offered the driver the ability to appeal within 28 days from its
imposition. You also as the registered keeper or the driver of
the vehicle had the right to appeal within the 28 day period
from the point of issue of the Notice to Keeper. Since we have
received no further correspondence from you, payment is required
within 14 days. If you consider there to be exceptional
circumstances as to why you should be allowed to appeal outside
of this period then you should send your reasons to us, in
writing, at 2 Wellington Place, Leeds, West Yorkshire, LS1 4AP.
>
--- End Quote ---
This says that there was (past tense) an opportunity to appeal
within 28 days of the point of issue of the NTK. The date on the
NTK is 9 June. As such, only 20 days have passed.
Should this be escalated directly to the IAS? Or should an
appeal be sent to the mail address above?
#Post#: 78802--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: b789
Date: June 29, 2025, 1:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Good luck with the IAS. You'd be more productive poking yourself
in the eye with a sharp stick.
The PPSCoP requires the appeal window to be 28 days from
"receipt" of the notice. The notice is deemed "received" two
working days after it is issued.
#Post#: 78810--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: Karl
Date: June 29, 2025, 3:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Certainly, I am not expecting any appeals to be successful. I
just want to be sure that the proper steps are taken so that we
can be successful down the line. Do you suggest that submitting
the appeals is not necessary, even for the sake of showing at a
later stage that all avenues were exhausted? Do you suggest that
it is sufficient to just wait until PCS makes contact again?
As for the PPSCoP requirement for a 28-day appeals window,
shouldn't this apply to the NTK separately from the NTD. After
all, the word receipt implies a recipient, and it is reasonable
to assume that a notice to DRIVER and a notice to KEEPER are
notices to two separate recipients (as is relevant to the VCS v
Edward case linked above).
#Post#: 78828--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: b789
Date: June 30, 2025, 1:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The NtD allows appeal up to 28 days from the date it is issued.
For an NtK issued if there is no response to an NtD, then it is
28 days from "receipt" of the NtK. The NtK cannot be issued
earlier than 28 days after the date of the NtD and no later than
5 days after the date of the NtD.
If you are appealing as the Keeper having received the NtK, then
you have 28 days from the issue date plus, two working days, in
which to submit the appeal. If you're saying that they have
refused an appeal within this window, then submit a formal
complaint to them. Also submit a formal complaint about the
operator to the DVLA also as they are in breach of the PPSCoP
and therefore the KADOE contract and are using your data
unlawfully, which the DVLA, as the data controller, is
responsible.
*****************************************************
Page 6 of 8
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page