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#Post#: 72087--------------------------------------------------
Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: Karl
Date: May 18, 2025, 2:08 pm
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Looking for some general advice here.
On 7 May 2025, the recipient of the fine parked on the premises
of their workplace with a valid permit properly displayed, but
in a bay designated for pre-booked visitors. A notice was
apparently attached to the window screen. Parking on the site is
monitored by Parking Control Solutions.
The recipient of the ticket apparently forgot to pay the fine.
There was some intention to seek advice from the site manager to
see if there would be any support to have the ticket thrown out.
This was apparently not pursued. The recipient of the ticket has
now lost the ticket, and the date for the higher fee is fast
approaching if not already past.
So here are my questions:
1. If I recall correctly, the general concept of a lower fine
converting to a higher fine after a given period is a disputed
mechanism amongst this community. Is there a reliable way to
refuse the higher fee and pay the lower fee only, even after the
deadline?
2. The notice having been lost, the recipient will presumably
have to get in touch with the parking company first even to be
able to make the payment. But this has me wondering—is there
anything in the fact that no follow-up has been sent in the
mail?
Couldn't one imagine a scenario whereby the ticket were removed
from the vehicle by a mischievous passer-by, such that the
recipient was not aware that any ticket had been issued? And in
such a case, if no correspondence were sent by mail, how would
the recipient be reasonably expected to pay the fine?
Thanks in advance.
#Post#: 72089--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: May 18, 2025, 2:17 pm
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A small note - if issued by a private company, it is not a fine
(even though it feels like one).
Two initial questions:
- Which parking company?
- What date did the parking event take place?
--- Quote ---
> There was some intention to seek advice from the site manager
to see if there would be any support to have the ticket thrown
out. This was apparently not pursued.
--- End Quote ---
It should be pursued now - this is by far the easiest way to
resolve the matter.
--- Quote ---
> 1. If I recall correctly, the general concept of a lower fine
converting to a higher fine after a given period is a disputed
mechanism amongst this community. Is there a reliable way to
refuse the higher fee and pay the lower fee only, even after the
deadline?
>
--- End Quote ---
That's not quite the correct way round. The charge will be £X
(usually £100). As an 'incentive' to pay up without a fuss, and
in accordance with the Private Parking Sector Single Code of
Practice, parking companies offer a discount of at least 40% on
the charge if it is paid within 14 days. Once that period has
passed, the company will not entertain paying at the reduced
fee. Although this is only relevant if one is intending to pay.
--- Quote ---
> 2. The notice having been lost, the recipient will presumably
have to get in touch with the parking company first even to be
able to make the payment. But this has me wondering—is there
anything in the fact that no follow-up has been sent in the
mail?
--- End Quote ---
If no payment or appeal is received, the parking company will
(should) apply to the DVLA for the details of the registered
keeper of the vehicle, and will then send said keeper a parking
charge notice by post.
#Post#: 72092--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: Karl
Date: May 18, 2025, 2:27 pm
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The date of the parking event was 7 May. According to office
website, parking is managed by Parking Control Solutions. I
shall edit the original post to contain these details
momentarily.
The date of the event being 7 May, 14 days has not yet passed
but is fast approaching. If we do not receive anything in the
mail before the 14-day period, would that be a valid argument to
not pay the full amount?
I will encourage the recipient to contact the site manager.
#Post#: 72096--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: May 18, 2025, 2:42 pm
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A postal notice following a windscreen ticket should be issued
such that it is delivered within "the period of 28 days
following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after
that on which the notice to driver was given" - if they want to
hold the keeper liable using Schedule 4 of the Protection of
Freedoms Act.
So if the parking event was on 7th May, the postal notice should
be received by 2nd July, if they want to hold the keeper liable.
Any later, and they'll not be able to recover the charge from
the keeper.
#Post#: 72098--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: Karl
Date: May 18, 2025, 2:57 pm
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Would that mail notice typically reinstate the 14-day discount?
Again, assuming the windscreen notice had never been properly
received, the recipient could not be reasonably expected to pay
within the first 14 days.
#Post#: 72117--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: b789
Date: May 18, 2025, 6:28 pm
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Jeez!!! Stop panicking about the "mugs discount"! If that is all
the driver is worried about, then just pay it and be done with
it, irrespective of whether it has been issued correctly or
fairly!
Parking Control Solutions used to be a BPA member but they do
not appear on their list of accredited operators. They do not
appeal on the ICP list either. This could be significant.
You need to edit your OP so that there is absolutely no
reference to the fact that the Keeper may also be the driver.
The Keeper only ever refers to the driver in the third person.
Make sure that there is not damning "I did this or that", only
"the driver did this or that". The Keeper and the driver are two
separate legal entities.
As above, stop referring to it as a "fine". I will give you £100
for each and every occurrence of the word "fine" or even
"penalty" you can show us on that Notice to Driver (NtD).
That Parking Charge Notice (PCN) is simply a speculative invoice
from an unregulated private parking company for an alleged
breach of contract by an unknown driver. The only way they can
transfer that liability from the unknown driver to the known
Keeper (once they apply to the DVLA for the Keepers data), is if
their NtD and subsequent Notice to Keeper (NtK) is if those
notices fully comply with all the requirements of PoFA 2012.
I will hazard a guess bet that the NtD did not comply. DO NOT
appeal anything yet!!!!
On day 27 after the date the NtD was issued (not a day earlier
or later), the Keeper (not the driver, whether the Keeper was or
was not the driver) appeals with the following:
--- Quote ---
> I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking
charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I
will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your
client landowner.
>
> For your information, my name and address for service as the
Registered Keeper is:
>
> [Your name]
> [Your address]
> [Post code]
>
> As your Notice to Driver (NtD) does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Keeper
of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even
substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no
admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions
can be drawn. PCS has relied on contract law allegations of
breach against the driver only.
>
> The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation
of the law of agency. Your NtD can only hold the driver liable.
PCS have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a
complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
As the Keeper is no longer in possession of the NtD, you won't
be able to use their webform. The only way to submit the appeal
will be by email. The only published email address for PCS is
dpo@parkingcontrolsolutions.co.uk so use that and add that you
are unable to use the appeals portal because you no longer have
the NtD and for the DPO to pass the appeal on to the relevant
team.
There is a reason for not appealing before day 27 after the NtD
is issued.
Having appealed and provided your name and address for service,
the operator should not apply to the DVLA for your data. If they
do, and admit as much by issuing a postal Notice to Keeper
(NtK), you have a valid complaint against them with the DVLA for
unlawfully accessing your data unnecessarily from them.
So, forget the mugs discount and appeal ONLY as the Keeper on
day 27, making sure you do not blab the drivers identity,
inadvertently or otherwise. There is a good chance they will
reject the appeal without issuing an NtK, which further
strengthens your defence should they try to litigate the matter.
I will ask the DVLA why PCS do not appear on either the BPA or
IPC lists of accredited operators and if they are still
requesting DVLA Keeper data under the KADOE contract. If so, and
they are not an accredited AOS member, under what authority are
they being provided with DVLA Keeper data.
#Post#: 72131--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: May 19, 2025, 3:31 am
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A note on the above - if they are not a member of either AOS
they may not be accessing keeper data at all, and just chancing
their arm with windscreen tickets, in which case you'd be better
off not responding at all.
#Post#: 72185--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: b789
Date: May 19, 2025, 8:47 am
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Good point. In this case, don't respond at all. If they do try
and obtain your Keeper data from the DVLA, we'll know soon
enough.
I did send an FOI request to the DVLA yesterday about this and
should hopefully hear back no later than 17th June.
#Post#: 72270--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: Karl
Date: May 19, 2025, 2:23 pm
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The driver has now found the lost ticket, and I believe she
intends to pay. I have advised her to at least try her luck with
the site management first, but we'll see.
For my own intrigue, and perhaps for other users of the forum,
I'll look forward to hearing the result of the FOI request.
As for the initial post, I don't seem to be able to edit it
anymore, but I was attempting to be vague with my use of the
term 'recipient' instead of owner, driver, keeper, etc.
#Post#: 72274--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: May 19, 2025, 2:33 pm
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If they are indeed not a member of any AOS, then she's
potentially giving them £60 that they have absolutely no way of
recovering.
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