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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 71948--------------------------------------------------
SJP for driving without due care and attention
DIR By: Driver110
Date: May 17, 2025, 6:58 am
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Hi, I have been issued with an SJP for driving in a public place
without due care and attention. Two police officer witness
statements have been served with the SJP, but these contain
factual inaccuracies with regards to where they say they saw me
and where their vehicle ended up/roads they went down. No other
evidence has been served and I don’t believe there is any
dashcam footage. I understand speeding is an aggravating factor
and they don’t need to have evidence of the speed I was doing,
but there is no evidence of this. I wish to plead not guilty but
am unsure as to what information needs to go in the box when
completing my response form and whether I need to serve a formal
witness statement or if this can be dealt with later on in the
process. As the only evidence from my side will be my own
testimony. I am at risk of 6 points which would lead to a
totting up ban, and I am trying to avoid this. Thanks in
advance.
#Post#: 71986--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
DIR By: Freecall
Date: May 17, 2025, 10:29 am
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If you really want to plead NG then that is all you need to do
at this stage. You will get a postal requisition (think
summons) to attend court where you will be asked to formally
enter a plea and a trial date will be set.
At that court appearance you will also be asked what evidence
you propose to rely on. The court will also set a timetable for
the trial itself. If there is a live witness (you) then it will
set out how long will be allocated for you to give evidence
in-chief and for the subsequent cross examination. The court
will do the same for the prosecution. It will also set down a
timetable for evidence to be served and also ask you for the
basis of your defence - you haven't told us what that is yet but
the court will want to know at that first appearance.
Then you will attend for trial on the date given by the court.
The actual date is solely the decision of the court but
generally it will allow 'dates to avoid' so have your diary with
you.
Of course there remains the bigger picture, do you really want
to plead not guilty?
#Post#: 71994--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: May 17, 2025, 1:23 pm
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--- Quote from: Freecall link ---
>
> Of course there remains the bigger picture, do you really want
to plead not guilty?
>
--- End Quote ---
...bearing in mind the potential risks. (Not least the
prosecution costs if found guilty, at least £620)
Perhaps you could outline the substance of the statements - bear
in mind the prosecution only have to show your driving fell
below the standard expected of a competent and safe driver. The
'inaccuracies' you have highlighted could be corrected by the
officers at court and will probably not undermine their
substance.
Careless is 3-9 points, so totting may not be a factor unless
it's fairly serious circumstances. But if you are at risk of
totting then consider an Exceptional Hardship plea if you have
one.
#Post#: 72181--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
DIR By: Driver110
Date: May 19, 2025, 8:35 am
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Thank you for the replies. The police officers are saying that I
pulled out of a road at speed without stopping properly and that
I attempted to overtake another vehicle but was prevented from
doing so by some bollards coming up to a roundabout. This was
not the case.
Perhaps I was too close to the vehicle in front, but I did not
attempt to overtake at any point. They are then saying I sped
over the roundabout and continued on and were therefore unable
to perform a stop at the time. Statement indicates that they
think I sped past on purpose in order to avoid a stop, but
again, this was not the case.
So are you saying that their statements, and the testimony they
give at court will be enough to convict, without any other
evidence?
I would not say the circumstances were serious, but am unsure
what would be classed as serious in this kind of scenario. It
was late at night, and I was driving just outside of the town
centre, but no-one was harmed or at risk of being harmed, in my
opinion. I was just trying to get home.
With the totting up risk - if I were to plead guilty, is it
possible that they would review the statements and decide on a 3
point penalty and there would be no need to attend court? Or
will there always be a need to attend court if the points range
will possibly put you at risk, like in these circumstances.
Apologies, I am unsure how all this works with a SJPN.
Unfortunately, I don't think I would have an Exceptional
Hardship plea. I am a single, young(ish) driver, with no major
responsibilities.
#Post#: 72186--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: May 19, 2025, 9:05 am
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--- Quote from: Driver110 link ---
>
> So are you saying that their statements, and the testimony
they give at court will be enough to convict, without any other
evidence?
>
--- End Quote ---
Are you asking whether whoever it was that you were replying to
has stated that the contents of the statements, which you had
not shared with us when that post was made, and that unknown
evidence that the officer will give if their statement(s) are
challenged will result in you being convicted? If so, that is a
spectacularly stupid question.
Firstly, for the most part at least, people are saying what they
have written in their posts. Not whatever you decide for
whatever reason to read into their posts.
For careless driving, the court can convict on the evidence of a
single uncorroborated witness, if as a result of that evidence
(and considering anything you might have said in your defence)
they are certain beyond any reasonable doubt that the standard
of your driving fell below the standard expected of a careful
and competent driver.
#Post#: 72197--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: May 19, 2025, 9:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Driver110 link ---
>
> I am unsure how all this works with a SJPN.
>
--- End Quote ---
The SJPN is a 'Single Justice' in a room that processes the
forms. You cannot attend. (But the matter can potentially be
disposed of at this stage)
For a guilty plea they will simply decide on the sentence based
on the statements presented. Should you want to challenge those
statements then the matter would have to be heard at court.
From what little you have said, the matter does seem low end so
you may not be at risk at totting. But the SJ can decide that
the matter be heard at court based on the possibility. You
don't have to submit an EH plea if you do tot - it doesn't sound
like you have a case anyway (But there's nothing to be lost in
trying).
Alternatively, you can plead not guilty and run a defence at a
contested trial. Note the threshold to conviction above.
#Post#: 72207--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
DIR By: Driver110
Date: May 19, 2025, 10:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
> [quote author=Driver110 link=topic=6370.msg72181#msg72181
date=1747661729]
> So are you saying that their statements, and the testimony
they give at court will be enough to convict, without any other
evidence?
>
--- End Quote ---
Are you asking whether whoever it was that you were replying to
has stated that the contents of the statements, which you had
not shared with us when that post was made, and that unknown
evidence that the officer will give if their statement(s) are
challenged will result in you being convicted? If so, that is a
spectacularly stupid question.
Firstly, for the most part at least, people are saying what they
have written in their posts. Not whatever you decide for
whatever reason to read into their posts.
For careless driving, the court can convict on the evidence of a
single uncorroborated witness, if as a result of that evidence
(and considering anything you might have said in your defence)
they are certain beyond any reasonable doubt that the standard
of your driving fell below the standard expected of a careful
and competent driver.
[/quote]
Apologies, that may not have come across the best. I wasn’t
trying to get confirmation of whether I would definitely be
found guilty, I was trying to understand whether uncorroborated
witness evidence in general would be enough in a case like this.
And that you have confirmed at the end of your reply, so thank
you.
The threshold for conviction seems quite low, with regards to
what falls under careless driving, so I am just trying to weigh
up my options. I appreciate the help.
#Post#: 72208--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
DIR By: Driver110
Date: May 19, 2025, 10:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JustLoveCars link ---
>
> [quote author=Driver110 link=topic=6370.msg72181#msg72181
date=1747661729]
> I am unsure how all this works with a SJPN.
>
--- End Quote ---
The SJPN is a 'Single Justice' in a room that processes the
forms. You cannot attend. (But the matter can potentially be
disposed of at this stage)
For a guilty plea they will simply decide on the sentence based
on the statements presented. Should you want to challenge those
statements then the matter would have to be heard at court.
From what little you have said, the matter does seem low end so
you may not be at risk at totting. But the SJ can decide that
the matter be heard at court based on the possibility. You
don't have to submit an EH plea if you do tot - it doesn't sound
like you have a case anyway (But there's nothing to be lost in
trying).
Alternatively, you can plead not guilty and run a defence at a
contested trial. Note the threshold to conviction above.
[/quote]
Thank you very much for the explanation; that is a lot clearer
now.
I just need to decide whether to risk the guilty plea in order
to potentially avoid court, or just plead not guilty and try and
fight it, but potentially lose as it is essentially a case of
their word against mine. (Just thinking out loud here.)
Thanks again for the advice and explanations, it is very much
appreciated.
#Post#: 72244--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: May 19, 2025, 12:19 pm
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If you plead guilty and do not ask to attend court, the Single
Justice considers that more than five points are appropriate
(and would so make you liable o "totting up") the SJ will not
sentence you. Instead your case will be adjourned to a hearing
in he normal Magistrates' Court and you will be asked to attend.
From your description (and provided the court accepts the
officer's evidence) there seems a fairly high probability that
you will be convicted. With that in mind, contesting the matter
may prove costly.
#Post#: 72249--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
DIR By: Driver110
Date: May 19, 2025, 12:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> If you plead guilty and do not ask to attend court, the Single
Justice considers that more than five points are appropriate
(and would so make you liable o "totting up") the SJ will not
sentence you. Instead your case will be adjourned to a hearing
in he normal Magistrates' Court and you will be asked to attend.
>
> From your description (and provided the court accepts the
officer's evidence) there seems a fairly high probability that
you will be convicted. With that in mind, contesting the matter
may prove costly.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ahh ok. So again, thinking out loud, I am kinda screwed if I
plead guilty anyways, as I won’t be able to avoid court.
Apologies if you don’t know, or this is a stupid question, but
if pleading guilty automatically qualifies you for 5 points (in
a way) then I might aswell try and fight my case and put the
burden of proof on the prosecution? In that circumstance, if I
am found guilty, is there a chance the points could be 3? Or
would the sentence actually be harsher due to pleading not
guilty?
Apologies, really trying to get my head around all the
possibilities.
Thank you very much for your reply/help.
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