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#Post#: 71900--------------------------------------------------
CPM Parking PCN – vehicle not registered – Brindley Estate, West
minster, London
By: ArenJool Date: May 16, 2025, 4:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello.
I hope you're all well.
I am the registered keeper. I have just noticed this PCN. I have
not been on top of my mail as I am juggling a few court cases
fighting false allegations. When I try to log on to appeal, it
states that the case has been moved to their legal team.
The driver and passenger drove into this parking area. one of
them left the car to check to see if the Westminster white
disabled badge was valid in this car park. The car was never
vacant. 10 minutes of searching did not get a solid answer so
the car left the area.
The only signs inside only state "OVS permit holders only". It
is not clear that this area is one of the exclusions mentioned
of the white badge page (It is not clear that this is a WCC
estate):
HTML https://www.westminster.gov.uk/parking/disabled-parking/where-you-can-park-disabled-badge
Google maps link:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/1aPdZ5FexUQowPFQ6
Can this be successfully fought please?
Thanks.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 72439--------------------------------------------------
Re: CPM Parking PCN – vehicle not registered – Brindley Estate,
Westminster, London
By: ArenJool Date: May 20, 2025, 1:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Any advice please?
Thanks in advance.
#Post#: 72446--------------------------------------------------
Re: CPM Parking PCN – vehicle not registered – Brindley Estate,
Westminster, London
By: b789 Date: May 20, 2025, 1:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Blue and white badges are not relevant to private land. Whist
the operator may request that a relevant badge be displayed if
utilising disabled access bays, they have no relevance
otherwise.
The photo of the sign you have showed us does not appear to be a
sign belonging to CPM. How the car park area is delineated could
be important.
The GSV views are too old to be of any value. We would need to
see the current signage, preferably under the same lighting
conditions at the time of the alleged contravention.
For any contract to have been made, there must have been an
entrance sign that clearly informs the driver that they are
entering private land and that parking terms and conditions
apply. Once on the land, there must be sufficient signs that
adequately bring to the attention of the driver what the terms
of parking are.
Did you park in a bay marked as for the use of people with a
disability? If so, there should be a sign with all the parking
terms and conditions that can be read by the driver without
having to leave the vehicle. Is that the case?
#Post#: 72650--------------------------------------------------
Re: CPM Parking PCN – vehicle not registered – Brindley Estate,
Westminster, London
By: ArenJool Date: May 21, 2025, 3:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your response.
[quote author=b789 link=topic=6368.msg72446#msg72446
date=1747767418]
The photo of the sign you have showed us does not appear to be a
sign belonging to CPM. How the car park area is delineated could
be important.
[/quote]
One possibility I can think of, is that the car park is for
residents of the block it is adjacent to, but only if they
register their details with Westminster City Council (given the
"vehicle not registered" comment on the PCN). The bays do not
seem to be allocated to individual flats and are all unmarked
except for the one disabled bay stating for "LL14".
[quote author=b789 link=topic=6368.msg72446#msg72446
date=1747767418]
The GSV views are too old to be of any value. We would need to
see the current signage, preferably under the same lighting
conditions at the time of the alleged contravention.
[/quote]
I agree the GSV views are 3 years old but I promise that it
accurately reflects what is shown today. I can't get any photos
of that area until mid June.
[quote author=b789 link=topic=6368.msg72446#msg72446
date=1747767418]
For any contract to have been made, there must have been an
entrance sign that clearly informs the driver that they are
entering private land and that parking terms and conditions
apply. Once on the land, there must be sufficient signs that
adequately bring to the attention of the driver what the terms
of parking are.
[/quote]
The only sign mentioned on entrance is the one provided in the
opening post, and matches the GSV views.
[quote author=b789 link=topic=6368.msg72446#msg72446
date=1747767418]
Did you park in a bay marked as for the use of people with a
disability? If so, there should be a sign with all the parking
terms and conditions that can be read by the driver without
having to leave the vehicle. Is that the case?
[/quote]
The car was stopped, while still occupied, in an unmarked bay
for 10 minutes. Not in a bay marked as for the use of people
with a disability. I'm unsure if the agreed definition for what
a "parked" car includes whether or not the car is occupied, and
if there is any time limit, and if the car must be locked or
not.
#Post#: 72683--------------------------------------------------
Re: CPM Parking PCN – vehicle not registered – Brindley Estate,
Westminster, London
By: b789 Date: May 21, 2025, 11:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
On private land, unless the car is being loaded and/or unloaded,
then it is considered parked if stationary for more than 5
minutes in a car park with less than 500 spaces or 10 minutes if
more than 500 spaces.
This is because they are required to give the driver that time
to seek out, read and decide whether they want to be bound by
the terms of parking or leave. Any PCN issued for a period of
parking less than those times cannot prove that any contract was
formed with the driver.
So, if you were stationary for longer than the minimum
consideration period, then as far as they are concerned, the
driver had agreed to the terms and conditions.
Unless the PCN issued is fully compliant with all the
requirements of PoFA 2012, then they can hold the Keepr liable
if they don't know the drivers details.
#Post#: 108325--------------------------------------------------
Re: CPM Parking PCN – vehicle not registered – Brindley Estate,
Westminster, London
By: ArenJool Date: February 1, 2026, 4:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all.
So I have an update.
A letter was mailed to me dated 16 January 2026.
It is a "Letter of Claim".
I have uploaded the images with the personal details removed. It
states that I have until 15 February to reply.
The "Client" is named as "UK Car Park Management Limited", named
on my page 1.
No signage at all mentioned UK Car Park Management Limited". The
google maps link above shows what the signage stated. This is
reconfirmed when I returned to the location in July 2025 and
took a video.
I assume the best course of action is to complete the reply
form, filling box D stating that I never entered into any
contract as no contract terms were displayed.
Should I also fill box I asking for a copy of the written
contract for the debt and a full statement of the account, and a
copy of the notice of assignment of the debt?
Please let me know if there is anything better that I should do
instead.
LOC1
[img width=133
height=180]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/CRGp8z1K/1.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/CRGp8z1K
LOC2
[img width=133
height=180]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/w1XYN7v3/2.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/w1XYN7v3
LOC3
[img width=132
height=180]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/87Rgvj55/3.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/87Rgvj55
LOC4
[img width=131
height=180]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/cvRG3rHr/4.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/cvRG3rHr
LOC5
[img width=130
height=180]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/18G1FftX/5.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/18G1FftX
LOC6
[img width=129
height=180]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/68rxZy38/6.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/68rxZy38
LOC7
[img width=131
height=180]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/cvRG3rHg/7.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/cvRG3rHg
LOC8
[img width=131
height=180]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/Xrf65pJB/8.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/Xrf65pJB
LOC9
[img width=179
height=131]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/Sn6b9JsM/9.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/Sn6b9JsM
July sign
[img width=115
height=180]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/HrgXzhpV/July2025-sign.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/HrgXzhpV
July sign
[img width=81
height=180]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/hXBTs5SX/July2025-Sign-2.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/hXBTs5SX
May sign
[img width=135
height=180]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/3kTm1cKN/May2025-sign.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/3kTm1cKN
PCN page 1
[img width=132
height=180]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/YvHYRspC/pcn1.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/YvHYRspC
PCN page 2
[img width=126
height=180]
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/G4CGK5cB/pcn2.jpg[/img]
HTML https://postimg.cc/G4CGK5cB
Thanks!
#Post#: 108341--------------------------------------------------
Re: CPM Parking PCN – vehicle not registered – Brindley Estate,
Westminster, London
By: InterCity125 Date: February 2, 2026, 2:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Alfred Road appears to be a highway maintained at public expense
and the parking areas all appear to be council controlled.
The PCN does not appear to be PoFA compliant and there can never
be any keeper liability.
#Post#: 108342--------------------------------------------------
Re: CPM Parking PCN – vehicle not registered – Brindley Estate,
Westminster, London
By: InterCity125 Date: February 2, 2026, 3:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Found this...
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.52089,-0.1955034,3a,75y,27.4h,79.7t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTXQzL2lswIDHCW8VASCOmQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D10.299612302347839%26panoid%3DTXQzL2lswIDHCW8VASCOmQ%26yaw%3D27.40443371443549!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDEyOC4wIKXMDSoKLDEwMDc5MjA3MUgBUAM%3D
#Post#: 108959--------------------------------------------------
Re: CPM Parking PCN – vehicle not registered – Brindley Estate,
Westminster, London
By: ArenJool Date: February 6, 2026, 3:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=InterCity125 link=topic=6368.msg108342#msg108342
date=1770022830]
Found this...
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.52089,-0.1955034,3a,75y,27.4h,79.7t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTXQzL2lswIDHCW8VASCOmQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D10.299612302347839%26panoid%3DTXQzL2lswIDHCW8VASCOmQ%26yaw%3D27.40443371443549!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDEyOC4wIKXMDSoKLDEwMDc5MjA3MUgBUAM%3D
[/quote]
Thanks for that. I know where this sign is. It is just about at
the end of Alfred road. To the right of the entrance of an
electronically gated car park at the bottom left of this map of
"Brindley Estate":
HTML https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/728959897#map=18/51.521405/-0.194512.
There is an unobstructed road to the right of Polesworth house,
which has no CPM signs, an unobstructed road to the left of
Polesworth house, which also has no CPM signs, and an
unobstructed road to the right of Oversley house, which has no
CPM signs.
There is no way the driver could have entered the gated car park
at the end of Alfred road without a fob.
It is not clear from the photo which car park the PCN is
allocated for. This is important because there is no way the
driver could have read any terms if they went into any of the
accessible car parks.
Should the reply form be responded to with these details:
Filling box D stating that I (the keeper) never entered into any
contract as no contract terms were displayed, and the Keeper
cannot be liable because the PCN is not PoFA compliant.
Should I also fill box I asking for:
-a copy of the written contract for the debt and a full
statement of the account
-a copy of the notice of assignment of the debt
-confirmation of where they think the car was parked by way of a
map
-confirmation of where their camera is by way of map
-proof they have jurisdiction in that area
-confirmation of clearly displayed CPM terms in that area
Thanks in advance.
#Post#: 108970--------------------------------------------------
Re: CPM Parking PCN – vehicle not registered – Brindley Estate,
Westminster, London
By: InterCity125 Date: February 7, 2026, 3:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Do not use their forms - there is no need.
Just send a response which robustly denies any liability.
No need to mention PoFA at this stage.
Something along the lines of the following;
[font=Arial Black]To whom it may concern,
I am the vehicle keeper - the driver is not known by your
client.
I can confirm that I have received your Letter of Claim.
To be clear, I totally refute the allegation that any parking
charge is owed to your client.
Having examined the evidence, it is clear that this parking
charge has been issued in error as the vehicle driver has never
entered your clients property.
Your client's property appears to be a gated car park which
would not be accessible by the vehicle driver.
All other roads and car parks in the area are either council
owned or public highways.
I am sorry that I am unable to help you further in this matter.
Best wishes,
xxxxxx xxxxxxxxx[/font]
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