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#Post#: 71727--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 15, 2025, 2:37 pm
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PM received and I have replied. Please keep going and send my
draft. If you give up now, you will certainly join The Mugged
Club! I always pay half if I lose a bus lane case. BTW: I have
not lost one yet in the last 4 years. So, I have not paid
anything. This is winnable.
#Post#: 71902--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: AnsyLu
Date: May 16, 2025, 4:45 pm
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Evening Hippocrates, am I good to send this off to challenge the
PCN? Or am I to hold on till the information regarding the
authorisation is received from the council?
I am appealing the PCN on the following grounds:
1. Inadequate or Missing Signage – No Evidence of Contravention
The video evidence provided does not show any traffic signs that
I allegedly passed which would indicate a contravention. Without
clear and visible signage, I could not have been reasonably
aware that a restriction was in place. According to the Traffic
Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD), traffic signs
must be clearly visible and properly placed for any restriction
to be enforceable. The absence of such signs in the footage
undermines the basis for the PCN.
2. Procedural Impropriety – Fettering of Discretion
The PCN issued states that the authority “will” issue an
Enforcement Notice if payment is not made. This wording is a
departure from the mandatory statutory language under the Civil
Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General
Regulations 2007, which requires the authority to retain
discretion at all stages. By indicating a mandatory next step
rather than a discretionary one, the PCN unlawfully fetters the
authority’s discretion, amounting to procedural impropriety and
rendering the notice invalid.
3. De Minimis and Safety Justification – Momentary Bus Lane
Entry
The video evidence shows that only a very minor part of the
vehicle entered the bus lane, and only momentarily. This was
done solely to safely avoid a cyclist, not to gain any advantage
or to make material use of the lane. There was no obstruction,
no delay to any bus service, and no benefit obtained from the
incursion. The movement was clearly incidental and necessary to
ensure safety. This minor encroachment falls within the de
minimis principle and does not constitute a substantive
contravention.
#Post#: 71903--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: May 16, 2025, 4:52 pm
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There are signs on both side of the road plus these huge advance
signs so I doubt you'll convince anyone on lack of signage
although technically it's all not exactly in the right places.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/mxT5FfT.png
#Post#: 71906--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: AnsyLu
Date: May 16, 2025, 5:14 pm
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I understand what you are saying and although its unlikely it
will be taken into account, the signs on the left are often
hidden or obscured by at least 2 double decker buses at a time.
#Post#: 71935--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 17, 2025, 4:48 am
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--- Quote from: AnsyLu link ---
>
> Evening Hippocrates, am I good to send this off to challenge
the PCN? Or am I to hold on till the information regarding the
authorisation is received from the council?
>
> I am appealing the PCN on the following grounds:
>
> 1. Inadequate or Missing Signage – No Evidence of
Contravention
> The video evidence provided does not show any traffic signs
that I allegedly passed which would indicate a contravention.
Without clear and visible signage, I could not have been
reasonably aware that a restriction was in place. According to
the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD),
traffic signs must be clearly visible and properly placed for
any restriction to be enforceable. The absence of such signs in
the footage undermines the basis for the PCN.
>
> 2. Procedural Impropriety – Fettering of Discretion
> The PCN issued states that the authority “will” issue an
Enforcement Notice if payment is not made. This wording is a
departure from the mandatory statutory language under the Civil
Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General
Regulations 2007, which requires the authority to retain
discretion at all stages. By indicating a mandatory next step
rather than a discretionary one, the PCN unlawfully fetters the
authority’s discretion, amounting to procedural impropriety and
rendering the notice invalid.
>
> 3. De Minimis and Safety Justification – Momentary Bus Lane
Entry
> The video evidence shows that only a very minor part of the
vehicle entered the bus lane, and only momentarily. This was
done solely to safely avoid a cyclist, not to gain any advantage
or to make material use of the lane. There was no obstruction,
no delay to any bus service, and no benefit obtained from the
incursion. The movement was clearly incidental and necessary to
ensure safety. This minor encroachment falls within the de
minimis principle and does not constitute a substantive
contravention.
>
--- End Quote ---
P. I. is not a ground. Just cite verbatim on this point as per
my previous post.
2. The PCN departs from the mandatory wording in that it states
you will send an Enforcement Notice is not paid. This clearly
fetters discretion and invalidates the PCN.
3. As per 2: use my draft.
Sorry to criticise but no point in admitting anything save for
commenting upon their so-called evidence. They must prove their
case, not you theirs.
#Post#: 71939--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: AnsyLu
Date: May 17, 2025, 5:31 am
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Thank you Hippocrates for your amendments. I will Adjust and
repost today.
#Post#: 71979--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: AnsyLu
Date: May 17, 2025, 9:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I am appealing the PCN on the following grounds:
1. The video evidence provided does not show any traffic signs
allegedly passed which would indicate a contravention. The
absence of such signs in the footage undermines the basis for
the PCN.
2. The PCN departs from the mandatory wording in that it states
you will send an Enforcement Notice if not paid. This clearly
fetters discretion and invalidates the PCN.
3. The video shows the vehicle crossing part of the white line.
This is de minimis.
In light of the above, please cancel.
[member=24]Hippocrates[/member] - Changes and omissions have now
been made. Do I send this off now or await information regarding
the camera?
Thank you :)
#Post#: 71999--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 17, 2025, 3:04 pm
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[member=797]AnsyLu[/member] That's fine. The camera issue can
wait for later.
I have just checked Google.
I would start with inexact locus - there are several bus lanes
in this road.
*****
I am appealing the PCN on the following grounds:
1. The PCN does not state the exact location. There are several
bus lanes in this road. Therefore, the PCN does not meet the
requisite standard of proof.
2. The video evidence provided does not show any traffic signs
allegedly passed which would indicate a contravention. The
absence of such signs in the footage undermines the basis for
the PCN.
2. The PCN departs from the mandatory wording in that it states
you will send an Enforcement Notice if not paid. This clearly
fetters discretion and invalidates the PCN.
3. The video shows the vehicle crossing part of the white line.
This is de minimis.
In light of the above, please cancel.
#Post#: 72000--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: AnsyLu
Date: May 17, 2025, 3:19 pm
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Thank Hippocrates - I will make the changes as suggested and get
it sent off. Will keep you updated on their response….have a
lovely rest of the sunny weekend :-)
#Post#: 75219--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: AnsyLu
Date: June 7, 2025, 5:46 am
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Morning all,
Received this reply today. Doesn't seem to have addressed all
points made in the initial appeal.
Thoughts and opinions more welcomed - especially from
Hippocrates!
Thanks :)
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