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#Post#: 71462--------------------------------------------------
Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: AnsyLu
Date: May 14, 2025, 7:48 am
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Received this today.
I can’t seem to access the video or any other information via
their website so I can’t ascertain the distance driven partly in
the bus lane.
For clarity, I was overtaking the cyclist perhaps a little
generously.
Would there be any grounds to contest this PCN?
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 71468--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: May 14, 2025, 8:19 am
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You need to go to the right Redbridge page to get the details.
There are process challenges to London bus lanes others may help
with.
Yes you should have waited behind the cyclist - that was a daft
manoeuvre.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/274cT9SH/red.gif
#Post#: 71473--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: AnsyLu
Date: May 14, 2025, 9:31 am
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Does it make any difference if the line is broken as opposed to
a solid white line?
#Post#: 71479--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 14, 2025, 9:54 am
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Yes it does. The tapered part is not the bus lane commencement.
This is clearly an offside bus lane. I will be back with a
draft when I look at the video. The PCN is invalid too as it
states "will" serve and Enforcement Notice. Should say "may".
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/section/4/enacted
(e)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the
28 day period, an enforcement notice may be served by the
council on the person appearing to them to be the owner of the
vehicle;
HTML https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/bus-lane-driver-exposes-flaw-in-penalty-notices-6487620.html#:~:text=The%20legality%20of%20thousands%20of%20bus%20lane%20fines,Eden%20Street,%20Kingston%20upon%20Thames,%20in%20his%20Rover.
By the way, it was my son driving not I.
**
I helped with this one.
ETA Register of Appeals
Register kept under Regulation 20 of the Road Traffic (Parking
Adjudicators) (London) Regulations 1993, as amended and
Regulation 17 of the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic
Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England)
Regulations 2022.
Case Details
Case reference 2100649871
Appellant Grace Elizabeth Wheatland
Authority Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames
VRM X653XFX
PCN Details
PCN KT55276825
Contravention date 20 May 2010
Contravention time 08:49:00
Contravention location Eden Street
Penalty amount GBP 120.00
Contravention Being in a bus lane
Referral date -
Decision Date 12 May 2011
Adjudicator Michael Burke
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Enforcement
Notice.
Reasons The allegation in this case is that the vehicle was in
the bus lane during the hours of operation. Miss Wheatland does
not dispute this but criticises the quality of the bus lane
signage. I have considered very carefully the criticisms she
makes but having considered her evidence together with Google
Street View I am satisfied that the bus lane signage was clear
and adequate and that any respect in which it failed to comply
with Traffic Signs, Regulations and General Directions 2002 or
Traffic Signs Manual 2008 would come within the de minimis rule
as too trifling to be regarded.
In the circumstances Miss Wheatland could have had no complaint
had she been required to pay a penalty charge. However, I have
also had to consider part of the wording on the face of the PCN.
Miss Wheatland asserts that the PCN is non-compliant in stating
that in the event of failure to make representations or a
payment 'an Enforcement Notice will be served' rather than 'may
be served'. He refers to a PCN cancelled by this Local Authority
on similar grounds.
It is an enduring mystery why Local Authorities seem unable
simply to copy out the words of the statute or statutory
instrument imposing formal requirements. It is not sufficient
for the Local Authority to say as here that they have
subsequently amended the wording. They have given no good reason
for departing from the statutory wording in the first place.
However, the fact that the Enforcement Authority depart from the
formal wording of a statute or statutory instrument does not
necessarily invalidate the document. The question I have to
consider is whether the PCN was substantially compliant.
I regard this as a borderline case. Having considered the matter
very carefully I do not feel able to say that the wording on the
PCN is substantially compliant and accordingly I allow the
appeal.
#Post#: 71481--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: AnsyLu
Date: May 14, 2025, 9:59 am
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Thank you Hippocrates, I was actually waiting for your response!
I will await your reply and also will do more research myself!
#Post#: 71482--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 14, 2025, 10:07 am
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I wonder whether they have authorisation? This outfit only
recommenced issuing bus lane PCNs a few years back.
#Post#: 71485--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: AnsyLu
Date: May 14, 2025, 10:15 am
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How would you go about finding whether they have authorisation?
#Post#: 71533--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 14, 2025, 1:49 pm
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I will ask council and DFT separately.
#Post#: 71545--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 14, 2025, 2:44 pm
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For later: their challenge box is for general representations.
In pdf:
1. The video evidence does not prove the alleged contravention
as there are no signs allegedly passed.
2. The PCN departs from the mandatory wording in that it states
you will send an Enforcement Notice is not paid. This clearly
fetters discretion and invalidates the PCN.
3. The video shows the vehicle crossing part of the white line.
This is de minimis.
In light of the above, please cancel.
******
For light relief: there are no Leoforio Lanes in Kos. Be there
very soon.
#Post#: 71552--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bus Lane Contravention - Redbridge
DIR By: AnsyLu
Date: May 14, 2025, 3:31 pm
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Thank you Hippocrates - all above is clear.
I’ve been doing some research and definitely with respect to the
bus lane markings have found there is wiggle room. More research
tonight, will start to write up tomorrow and make adjustments if
and when new information from the council comes through!
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