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       #Post#: 78896--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
   DIR By: richonlybyname
       Date: June 30, 2025, 9:01 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: b789 link ---
       >
       > Did you identify as the driver? You were supposed to appeal
       ONLY as the Registered Keeper of the vehicle. Any reference to
       the driver should have been in the third person. NO "I did this
       or that", only "the driver did this or that".
       >
       > So, has the driver been identified or not?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Definitely no identification of the driver.
       #Post#: 78898--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
   DIR By: richonlybyname
       Date: June 30, 2025, 9:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: b789 link ---
       >
       > There is no keeper liability in this case. Here’s why:
       >
       > [indent]1. Notice to Driver (NtD) was issued
       >
       > The Parking Charge Notice (PCN) was issued on the vehicle on
       09/05/2025, which constitutes a Notice to Driver under Schedule
       4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).
       >
       > 2. No Notice to Keeper (NtK) has been issued
       >
       > Since the Keeper (assuming they did not identify as the
       driver) submitted an appeal on 05/06/2025 (day 27 after the
       NtD), and the rejection letter dated 30/06/2025 makes no mention
       of a Notice to Keeper being issued, the operator has not
       complied with PoFA requirements to establish Keeper liability.
       >
       > Under PoFA Schedule 4, if a NtD is issued, the operator must
       serve a compliant NtK between day 28 and day 56 after the date
       of the NtD to hold the Keeper liable. Since no NtK has been
       served, the keeper cannot be held liable.
       >
       > 3. Only the driver can be pursued
       >
       > Without a valid NtK served in accordance with PoFA, the
       operator can only pursue the driver, not the keeper. If the
       keeper has not identified the driver, and no NtK has been
       issued, the operator has no lawful basis to enforce the charge
       against the keeper.[/indent]
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Got it - thanks.  So 4 July is D-Day.
       #Post#: 78911--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
   DIR By: b789
       Date: June 30, 2025, 9:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Good. So, over the weekend, you can appeal to the IAS with the
       following:
       --- Quote ---
       > I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I deny any
       liability for this parking charge and appeal in full.
       >
       > The parking operator bears the burden of proof. It must
       establish that a contravention occurred, that a valid contract
       was formed between the operator and the driver, and that it has
       lawful authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices
       (PCNs) in its own name. I therefore require the operator to
       provide the following:
       >
       > [indent]1.  Strict proof that the operator has complied with
       the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) if it is attempting
       to rely on keeper liability. In this case, a Notice to Driver
       (NtD) was issued on 09/05/2025. I, the registered keeper,
       submitted an appeal on 05/06/2025 (day 27). As of the date of
       this appeal, no Notice to Keeper (NtK) has been served.
       > Under Schedule 4 of PoFA, where a NtD has been issued, a
       compliant NtK must be served between day 28 and day 56 following
       the alleged contravention in order to establish keeper
       liability. The operator has failed to do so. Therefore, there is
       no lawful basis to pursue me as the keeper, and I am under no
       obligation to identify the driver. Any attempt to hold me liable
       in the absence of a valid NtK is a clear breach of PoFA and
       renders this charge unenforceable against me.
       >
       > 2. Strict proof of clear, prominent, and adequate signage that
       was in place on the date in question, at the exact location of
       the alleged contravention. This must include a detailed site
       plan showing the placement of each sign and legible images of
       the signs in situ. The operator must demonstrate that signage
       was visible, legible, and compliant with the IPC Code of
       Practice that was valid at the time of the alleged
       contravention, including requirements relating to font size,
       positioning, and the communication of key terms.
       >
       > 3. Strict proof of a valid, contemporaneous contract or lease
       flowing from the landowner that authorises the operator to
       manage parking, issue PCNs, and pursue legal action in its own
       name. I refer the operator and the IAS assessor to Section 14 of
       the PPSCoP (Relationship with Landowner), which clearly sets out
       mandatory minimum requirements that must be evidenced before any
       parking charge may be issued on controlled land.
       > In particular, Section 14.1(a)–(j) requires the operator to
       have in place written confirmation from the landowner which
       includes:
       >
       > [indent]• the identity of the landowner,
       > • a boundary map of the land to be managed,
       > • applicable byelaws,
       > • the duration and scope of authority granted,
       > • detailed parking terms and conditions including any specific
       permissions or exemptions,
       > • the means of issuing PCNs,
       > • responsibility for obtaining planning and advertising
       consents,
       > • and the operator’s obligations and appeal procedure under
       the Code.[/indent]
       >
       > These requirements are not optional. They are a condition
       precedent to issuing a PCN and bringing any associated action.
       Accordingly, I put the operator to strict proof of compliance
       with the entirety of Section 14 of the PPSCoP. Any document that
       contains redactions must not obscure the above conditions. The
       document must also be dated and signed by identifiable persons,
       with evidence of their authority to act on behalf of the parties
       to the agreement. The operator must provide an agreement showing
       clear authorisation from the landowner for this specific site.
       >
       > 4. Strict proof that the enforcement mechanism (e.g. ANPR or
       manual patrol) is reliable, synchronised, maintained, and
       calibrated regularly. The operator must prove the vehicle was
       present for the full duration alleged and not simply momentarily
       on site, potentially within a permitted consideration or grace
       period as defined by the PPSCoP.
       >
       > 5. The IAS claims that its assessors are “qualified solicitors
       or barristers.” If that is true, then the assessor reading this
       will know that without a valid Notice to Keeper served in
       accordance with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act
       2012, there can be no keeper liability. That alone is fatal to
       the operator’s case.
       >
       > They will also know that without strict proof of landowner
       authority (VCS v HMRC [2013] EWCA Civ 186), no claim can
       succeed. They will know that clear and prominent signage is a
       prerequisite for contract formation (ParkingEye v Beavis [2015]
       UKSC 67), and that the burden of proof lies squarely with the
       operator.
       > Yet the IAS process provides no transparency. Decisions are
       unsigned, anonymised, and unpublished. There is no register of
       assessors, and no way for a motorist to assess the legal
       credibility of the individual supposedly adjudicating their
       appeal. If the assessor chooses to overlook these legal
       requirements and accept vague assertions or redacted documents
       from the operator, that will speak for itself—and lend further
       weight to the growing concern that this appeals service is
       neither independent nor genuinely legally qualified.[/indent]
       >
       > In short, I dispute this charge in its entirety and require
       full evidence of compliance with the law, industry codes of
       practice, and basic contractual principles.
       --- End Quote ---
       #Post#: 78912--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
   DIR By: richonlybyname
       Date: June 30, 2025, 9:59 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Many thanks for your excellent advice.  I've made a diary note
       to submit the appeal and will do so on Saturday afternoon.
       #Post#: 80374--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
   DIR By: richonlybyname
       Date: July 10, 2025, 4:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I have received a response to the appeal, text as follows from
       the IAS site:
       --- Quote ---
       > The operator made their Prima Facie Case on 10/07/2025
       09:51:00.
       >
       > The operator reported that...
       > The appellant was the keeper.
       > The operator is seeking keeper liability in accordance with
       PoFA..
       > A manual ticket was placed on the vehicle.
       > The ticket was issued on 09/05/2025.
       > The charge is based in Contract.
       >
       > The operator made the following comments...
       > The vehicle was parked with no valid parking session/permit in
       a Pay and Display Car Park.
       > Issue Reason: Expired Ticket
       > Photographic evidence held for this PCN: 15 Photographs.
       >
       > Our photographic evidence shows the vehicle was displaying an
       expired ticket and as such the vehicle was legitimately issued
       with a Parking Charge Notice. A ticket is only valid until the
       expiry time printed and no longer. It is a driver's
       responsibility to ensure that they return on or before the
       expiry time. We have a duty to the landowners who contact us to
       carry out periodic patrols on their behalf to ensure the rules
       are adhered to.
       > Our photographic evidence clearly shows that the ticket
       displayed within the vehicle expired at 14.30 and the PCN was
       issued at 15.03, therefore your vehicle had been parked on site
       for 33 minutes without valid authorisation. Please see attached
       evidence.
       > It is a driver's responsibility to ensure they have purchased
       a ticket to cover the stay required within the car park. A
       motorist would be expected to consider the time they require
       before purchasing a pay and display ticket.
       >
       > In this case there is no requirement to issue a Notice To
       Keeper. The PCN was affixed to the vehicle at the time of
       contravention that the appellant admits has been received. The
       PCN states that a parking charge of £100 is due from the driver
       within 28 days of the date of issue of this notice. Had the
       appellant not been the driver at the time of contravention, then
       they should have transferred liability to the driver. They have
       however, appealed the PCN themselves, we will pursue the PCN
       holding the appellant liable as the Registered Keeper. Had no
       correspondence been received from the appellant then after 28
       days, we would obtain the Registered Keeper details from the
       DVLA. There is no need in this instance as the appellant has
       provided their details. No Notice to Keeper is required.
       >
       > There is clear and concise signage displayed at the site. All
       our sites and signage is audited by our governing body, the IPC.
       The terms and conditions of parking are very clear at the site,
       there are numerous terms and conditions signs throughout the
       site and also the tariff board contains this information.
       >
       > This PCN was legitimately issued for an Expired Ticket.
       >
       > We also note that the appellant's appeal is considerably
       different to their initial appeal to Armtrac Security Services.
       >
       > The signage at the site states that:
       >
       > • You must either display a valid pay & display ticket within
       the windscreen or be in possession of a cashless payment session
       from the point of entry to point of exit.
       >
       > • You must enter your full and correct vehicle registration
       number when you make payment.
       >
       > The appellant's vehicle was not covered for the entire parking
       period where it remained parked on private land. The terms and
       conditions signs at the site make this requirement very clear to
       motorists.
       >
       > We, Armtrac Security Services, are contracted by the landowner
       to patrol this site ensuring that the terms of parking are
       adhered to. The signage here states that:
       >
       > • You must either display a valid pay & display ticket within
       the windscreen or be in possession of a cashless payment session
       from the point of entry to point of exit
       >
       > • You must enter your full and correct vehicle registration
       number when you make payment.
       >
       > • No overnight parking/camping between the hours of 1100pm -
       0800am.
       >
       > • All vehicles must be parked in accordance with all other
       signage located throughout the site.
       >
       > Please see tariff board located at entrance for payment
       information. In the event of a faulty payment terminal, please
       either use an alternative terminal, pay via the cashless payment
       facility, or leave the car park without using the facilities.
       Retrospective evidence of authority to park will not be
       accepted.
       >
       > By entering or remaining on this land you agree to abide by
       all of the Terms and Conditions.
       >
       > Breach of ANY terms or conditions will result in the driver
       being liable for a
       > PARKING CHARGE of £100
       >
       > We have followed the guidelines correctly and these rules are
       put in place by the land owner(s), not ourselves and our
       officers are instructed to enforce them. When entering a private
       car park it is for the motorist to consider the rules of parking
       in order to determine whether parking is suitable for their
       requirement's; the appellant chose to park their vehicle here at
       Maenporth Beach Private Pay and Display Car Park and by parking
       here they agreed to abide by the terms and conditions of
       parking. By Failing to display a valid pay and display ticket in
       the windscreen or have a valid cashless payment session covering
       the entire parking period; the rules of parking were breached
       and therefore they were legitimately issued with this PCN in
       accordance with the terms of parking displayed on the signage as
       a contractual term.
       >
       > This PCN was correctly issued to the appellant.
       >
       > We have enclosed Notice to Keeper, all correspondence between
       Armtrac and the appellant and all photographic evidence held for
       the PCN.
       >
       > Please refer to uploads for Site Map, Site Photographs, Signs
       and Landowner Authority.
       --- End Quote ---
       The operator response includes my original appeal text, which I
       didn't previously save - redacted copy attached as PDF.  The
       appeal was made as keeper and doesn't identify the driver.  The
       other documents provided are the original PCN, photographs of
       the vehicle etc already supplied above.  They did not provide
       the contract with the landowner.
       They also provided these documents, not specific to the case:
       Operator Documents (Pre-Loaded)
       Maenporth Site Photographs.pdf
       Site Map
       Blank document.docx
       pay & Display Entrance Sign (KBT0011-127)
       Maenporth Terms and Conditions (KBT0011-129)
       Maenporth Ringo Signage (KBT0011-130)
       In case these are useful I can upload somewhere for retrieval.
       Though, I gather the main point is that the operator is
       continuing to seek enforcement against the keeper, following a
       notice to driver (PCN), when a notice to keeper has not been
       issued.
       The IAS provides the following options:
       --- Quote ---
       > The Operator has provided the evidence above which he says
       proves that you are, on the face of it, responsible for the
       parking charge in question.
       >
       > You now have TWO options:
       >
       > 1) SUBMIT YOUR RESPONSE - You can respond to the evidence by
       making any representations that you consider to be relevant as
       to the lawfulness of the charge any by uploading any extra
       photographs or other evidence that you may have. After you
       submit your response, and the operator doesn't provide any more
       information you will not have the ability to add to or amend
       your submission. If the operator provides more information or
       evidence you will then have another chance to respond. You have
       until 16/07/2025 23:59 to submit your response if this is the
       route you wish to take.
       >
       > - OR -
       >
       > 2) REFER THE CASE STRAIGHT TO ARBITRATION - If you think you
       do not need to add any more information or evidence, for example
       if you consider that the information provided is not capable of
       showing that you are, on the face of it, responsible for the
       parking charge, then you may choose this option. Neither party
       will have the opportunity of making more representations and the
       Adjudicator will decide, on the balance of probabilities,
       whether you are liable for the parking charge.
       --- End Quote ---
       Shall I immediately refer or is there value restating the point
       re the failure to issue a NtK?
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 80376--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
   DIR By: jfollows
       Date: July 10, 2025, 4:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think you at least need to rebut the “In this case there is no
       requirement to issue a Notice To Keeper.” rubbish.
  HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4
       says:
       --- Quote ---
       >
       > 5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—
       >
       > (a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle
       the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but
       >
       > (b)is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against
       the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of
       the driver and a current address for service for the driver.
       >
       > (2)Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after
       the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which
       the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings
       to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper.
       >
       > 6(1)The second condition is that the creditor (or a person
       acting for or on behalf of the creditor)—
       >
       > (a)has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph
       7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph
       8; or
       >
       > (b)has given a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph
       9.
       >
       > (2)If a notice to driver has been given, any subsequent notice
       to keeper must be given in accordance with paragraph 8.
       --- End Quote ---
       #Post#: 80380--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
   DIR By: richonlybyname
       Date: July 10, 2025, 4:35 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       And I presume we're relying upon this 'expiry period',
       highlighted in red  - paragraph 5 - having been surpassed:
       --- Quote ---
       > 8(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper
       for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance
       with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
       >
       > (2)The notice must—
       >
       > (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was
       parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;
       >
       > (b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay
       parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking
       and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;
       >
       > (c)state that a notice to driver relating to the specified
       period of parking has been given and repeat the information in
       that notice as required by paragraph 7(2)(b), (c) and (f);
       >
       > (d)if the unpaid parking charges specified in that notice to
       driver as required by paragraph 7(2)(c) have been paid in part,
       specify the amount that remains unpaid, as at a time which is—
       >
       > (i)specified in the notice to keeper, and
       >
       > (ii)no later than the end of the day before the day on which
       the notice is either sent by post or, as the case may be, handed
       to or left at a current address for service for the keeper (see
       sub-paragraph (4));
       >
       > (e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the
       driver and a current address for service for the driver and
       invite the keeper—
       >
       > (i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or
       >
       > (ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify
       the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for
       service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;
       >
       > (f)warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28
       days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to
       keeper is given—
       >
       > (i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified
       under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and
       >
       > (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and
       a current address for service for the driver,
       >
       > the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this
       Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so
       much of that amount as remains unpaid;
       >
       > (g)inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt
       payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or
       complaints that are available;
       >
       > (h)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment
       or notification to the creditor may be made;
       >
       > (i)specify the date on which the notice is sent (if it is sent
       by post) or given (in any other case).
       >
       > (3)The notice must relate only to a single period of parking
       specified under sub-paragraph (2)(a) (but this does not prevent
       the giving of separate notices which each specify different
       parts of a single period of parking).
       >
       > (4)The notice must be given by—
       >
       > (a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current
       address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period;
       or
       >
       > (b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the
       keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the
       relevant period.
       >
       > (5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)
       is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days
       beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver
       was given.
       >
       > (6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the
       contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for
       the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day
       after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose
       “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a
       public holiday in England and Wales.
       >
       > (7)When the notice is given it must be accompanied by any
       evidence prescribed under paragraph 10.
       >
       > (8)In sub-paragraph (2)(g) the reference to arrangements for
       the resolution of disputes or complaints includes—
       >
       > (a)any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing
       informally with representations by the keeper about the notice
       or any matter contained in it; and
       >
       > (b)any arrangements under which disputes or complaints
       (however described) may be referred by the keeper to independent
       adjudication or arbitration.
       --- End Quote ---
       #Post#: 80382--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
   DIR By: jfollows
       Date: July 10, 2025, 4:40 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Plus they never applied to the DVLA:
       --- Quote ---
       > 11(1)The third condition is that—
       >
       > (a)the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the
       creditor) has made an application for the keeper's details in
       relation to the period of parking to which the unpaid parking
       charges relate;
       >
       > (b)the application was made during the relevant period for the
       purposes of paragraph 8(4) (where a notice to driver has been
       given) or 9(4) (where no notice to driver has been given);
       >
       > (c)the information sought by the application is provided by
       the Secretary of State to the applicant.
       >
       > (2)The third condition only applies if the vehicle is a
       registered vehicle.
       >
       > (3)In this paragraph “application for the keeper's details”
       means an application for the following information to be
       provided to the applicant by virtue of regulations made under
       section 22(1)(c) of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act
       1994—
       >
       > (a)the name of the registered keeper of the vehicle during the
       period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate;
       and
       >
       > (b)the address of that person as it appears on the register
       (or, if that person has ceased to be the registered keeper, as
       it last appeared on the register).
       --- End Quote ---
       #Post#: 80386--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
   DIR By: b789
       Date: July 10, 2025, 5:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       There was no need to apply to the DVLA as the Keeper appealed,
       solely in their capacity as the Keeper.
       --- Quote ---
       > Response to operators Prima Facie  case:
       >
       > If the assessor genuinely holds legal qualifications at
       solicitor or barrister level — a claim for which the IAS offers
       no transparency or public verification — they would know that
       Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)
       requires a valid Notice to Keeper (NtK) where the parking
       operator seeks to pursue the registered keeper, in cases where
       the driver is not identified. This obligation applies
       specifically when a Notice to Driver (NtD) has been issued and
       the keeper has not admitted to being the driver. In this case,
       the NtD was affixed to the vehicle, and I appealed solely in my
       capacity as keeper without making any admission of driver
       identity. Therefore, absent a compliant NtK, the operator’s
       reliance on PoFA is not only procedurally defective — it is
       legally embarrassing.
       >
       > The suggestion that my appeal, made solely in the capacity of
       registered keeper, somehow enables Armtrac to bypass the
       requirements of PoFA and retrospectively assign driver liability
       is not just legally untenable — it is desperate. Lipstick on a
       pig remains a pig, and the misapplication of statute does not
       cure a fatally defective claim.
       >
       > Therefore if the IAS assessor is indeed legally qualified — as
       claimed but never substantiated — they will be fully aware that
       in cases where an NtD has been issued and the keeper has not
       admitted to being the driver, PoFA requires the issuance of a
       valid NtK to engage keeper liability. This is not discretionary.
       The absence of a Notice to Keeper in this case is fatal to any
       attempt to rely on PoFA.
       >
       > Should the assessor choose to ignore this foundational
       requirement — which sits at the heart of Schedule 4 — it will
       speak volumes about the reliability and independence of this
       adjudication process. The consistent refusal to attribute
       decisions to named individuals only compounds the perception
       that transparency and legal rigour are lacking. If the decision
       rendered here genuinely reflects qualified legal reasoning, its
       author should be willing to put their name to it. If not, one
       must question why.
       >
       > In summary, the absence of a valid NtK, combined with the lack
       of any driver identification, renders keeper liability entirely
       inapplicable under PoFA The operator cannot lawfully pursue the
       registered keeper, and any attempt to do so is procedurally
       defective and unenforceable.
       --- End Quote ---
       #Post#: 80439--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
   DIR By: richonlybyname
       Date: July 10, 2025, 8:16 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks - response submitted.  Given the clear failure to comply
       with PoFA as you set out - and which I with no prior knowledge
       of the law was able to verify independently in a matter of
       minutes - it would be indeed be farcical if IAS doesn't adjucate
       in favour of the appelant.
       On a side note - the IAS form which needs to be filled in to
       respond has had the ability to copy or paste text disabled,
       which I struggle to see any valid reason for.
       *****************************************************
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