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#Post#: 70934--------------------------------------------------
Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
DIR By: richonlybyname
Date: May 11, 2025, 12:24 pm
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The driver visited Maenporth Beach car park on 9 May 2025,
purchased a 2 hour parking ticket to cover the period 12:30 to
14:30 and overstayed at the cafe on the beach, not returning to
the vehicle until after a PCN was issued for overstay. The PCN
shows an observed time of 14:42 and a time of issue of 15:03.
I have sinced phoned the cafe where I was dining while the car
was parked and which the car park is owned/leased by; they
advised that they couldn't cancel the ticket as the car park was
managed and suggested instead contacting the parking company to
seek cancellation of the PCN. This has exhausted the path of
least resistance and I suspect the parking company is less
likely to take pity on the driver than the cafe would one of its
customers.
PCN front and back here:
[img width=1100
height=1466]
HTML https://i.imgur.com/icOM6Yt.png?1[/img]
HTML https://i.imgur.com/DYUdyFv.jpeg
I didn't take pics of the terms/signage in the car park at the
time of visit and I don't live locally. Here's the GSV however
in case it's helpful:
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@50.1261444,-5.0946274,3a,90y,111.91h,64.74t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sgks3We4H-6684bg_TjU6nQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D25.263596120601278%26panoid%3Dgks3We4H-6684bg_TjU6nQ%26yaw%3D111.9092559953294!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDUwNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
Any advice which may allow the driver to avoid payment of this
PCN - even if the effort involved in avoidance is
disproportionate to the value of the 'parking charge', would be
appreciated. I do detest penalties such as these so am willing
to spend time on the avoidance.
Thanks!
#Post#: 70940--------------------------------------------------
Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
DIR By: b789
Date: May 11, 2025, 12:40 pm
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If the cafe is the landowner, then they have fobbed you off. Try
asking them who is the Monkey and who is the Organ Grinder in
their contractual relationship?
Advice is to lodge an appeal, only as the Keeper, on day 27
after the alleged contravention. This is to try and trigger an
appeal response rather than them issuing Notice to Keeper (NtK).
If they respond to the appeal without issuing an NtK, then they
cannot hold the Keeper liable, only the driver, who is unknown
to them, unless the Keeper blabs it to them, inadvertently or
otherwise.
Additionally, if the Keeper appeals on day 27 and provides their
details, if the operator then applies to the DVLA for there
data, they will have breached the KAODE agreement and will be
liable to an investigation by the DVLA and possible sanctions,
including removal of there access to the DVLA Keeper database.
#Post#: 72491--------------------------------------------------
Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
DIR By: richonlybyname
Date: May 21, 2025, 2:55 am
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Many thanks. I will submit an appeal to the PCN issuer as
suggested. Is it important what I write in the appeal, or it's
simply its existence that matters?
I've also 'appealed' to the better nature of the cafe owner
again.
#Post#: 72553--------------------------------------------------
Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
DIR By: b789
Date: May 21, 2025, 7:56 am
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I don't think that appealing to the cafe owners better nature is
likely to get you far. This location is a well known hot spot
for PCNs. I would think that adverse social media warnings about
the fact that this cafe does not really care that their patrons
are invoiced for £100 a pop by a third party, unregulated
private parking company.
However, you obviously were aware that it was a pay and display
site. You purchased a permit and over stayed by at least 30
minutes. I really don't think you have much of a defence.
You can try to catch them out on a technicality but that will
require the Keeper to decline to identify the driver as there is
no legal obligation to do so and hope that they don't issue a
postal Notice to Keeper (NtK).
THis requires the Keeper to appeal on day 27 after the issue
date of the Notice to Driver (NtD), in the hope that they
respond and reject the appeal without issuing an NtK. You would
also provide them with the Keepers details to prevent them from
requesting these details from their DVLA.
If they do apply to the DVLA for the Keepers data after they
have been provided it, it is a breach of their KADOE contract as
they are requesting data unnecessarily and therefore a breach of
your GDPR and everything that that entails.
I would suggest you send an appeal, ONLY as the Keeper,
declining to identify the driver and provide your name and
address as the Keeper, advising them not to make a DVLA data
request, now that you have provided them with your Keeper
details. DO this on Thursday 5th June. No earlier or later. DO
NOT do this by post. Do it online or by email.
#Post#: 72554--------------------------------------------------
Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
DIR By: richonlybyname
Date: May 21, 2025, 8:02 am
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You're right of course - I tried in writing to one of the cafe
owners and they weren't helpful, as before.
I've set a calendar reminder for the appeal and will confirm
once something happens!
#Post#: 78840--------------------------------------------------
Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
DIR By: richonlybyname
Date: June 30, 2025, 3:36 am
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Morning,
I appealed online at your suggestion on day 27 (5 June). I
didn't do anything to identify the driver, only the keeper.
I received the attached appeal response letter this morning by
e-mail. I've redacted personal details, reference numbers,
registration plate etc. As far as I can see this doesn't
include anything that could be considered a notice to keeper.
Shall I just sit tight until they start demanding payment or
respond now?
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 78881--------------------------------------------------
Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
DIR By: b789
Date: June 30, 2025, 8:32 am
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Don't respond yet as they still have few days in which to issue
an NtK. What did you put in as your appeal? You never showed us.
#Post#: 78885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
DIR By: richonlybyname
Date: June 30, 2025, 8:40 am
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--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Don't respond yet as they still have few days in which to
issue an NtK. What did you put in as your appeal? You never
showed us.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't have the actual text of the appeal (I just saved a copy
of the filing acknowledgement).
Broadly though, the appeal didn't make any technical arguments,
the main point I made was that I had contacted the owners of the
cafe and they had advised me to contact the car park operator to
request the ticket be cancelled. So, I was seeking cancellation
of the ticket at the cafe owners' request/direction.
#Post#: 78888--------------------------------------------------
Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
DIR By: b789
Date: June 30, 2025, 8:50 am
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Did you identify as the driver? You were supposed to appeal ONLY
as the Registered Keeper of the vehicle. Any reference to the
driver should have been in the third person. NO "I did this or
that", only "the driver did this or that".
So, has the driver been identified or not?
#Post#: 78891--------------------------------------------------
Re: Maenporth Beach PCN - overstay - Armtrac Security
DIR By: b789
Date: June 30, 2025, 8:53 am
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There is no keeper liability in this case. Here’s why:
[indent]1. Notice to Driver (NtD) was issued
The Parking Charge Notice (PCN) was issued on the vehicle on
09/05/2025, which constitutes a Notice to Driver under Schedule
4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).
2. No Notice to Keeper (NtK) has been issued
Since the Keeper (assuming they did not identify as the driver)
submitted an appeal on 05/06/2025 (day 27 after the NtD), and
the rejection letter dated 30/06/2025 makes no mention of a
Notice to Keeper being issued, the operator has not complied
with PoFA requirements to establish Keeper liability.
Under PoFA Schedule 4, if a NtD is issued, the operator must
serve a compliant NtK between day 28 and day 56 after the date
of the NtD to hold the Keeper liable. Since no NtK has been
served, the keeper cannot be held liable.
3. Only the driver can be pursued
Without a valid NtK served in accordance with PoFA, the operator
can only pursue the driver, not the keeper. If the keeper has
not identified the driver, and no NtK has been issued, the
operator has no lawful basis to enforce the charge against the
keeper.[/indent]
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