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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 70769--------------------------------------------------
NIP/ Asked for evidence and refused
DIR By: Titan
Date: May 10, 2025, 5:37 am
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Good morning,
I have been named as a driver at the time of the alleged offence
of exceeding 30 mph limit on a restricted road.
I wrote to the unit issued the NIP to ask for evidence to be
able to establish some fact. I have not filled the NIP, just
send them a letter of enquiry/request of evidence. I am not sure
if I was the drive, also I doubt the vehicle ever exceeded the
determined limits as it travel on a cruiser most of the time set
for the road speed limit.
I received a response through the post yesterday, only with a
few photos of the vehicle, which does not help to determine the
exact location of the vehicle on the road mentioned. However, it
is necessary to know exactly at what location of the
aforementioned road it is, as this is a road stretches for
miles, and there has been a change of driver.
From the images of the car shared with me a it came to my
attention that the car is not on a straight stretch of a the
road but on the bend. In my understanding, accurate speed
readings are most likely on straight stretches of road where the
vehicle's motion is consistent and predictable. The car being on
the bend will a compromising factor on the accuracy. Only one of
the images have date time and speed printed on it, but the other
two images do not have any details. I would expect at least the
time stamps on each photo, as the speed is calculated by the
distance travelled over a period of time. By not showing the
time stamp accurate to 1 sec, it strengthens my opinion that the
reading is inaccurate.
In addition, they deny to provide the equipment details and
calibration history used to record the speeding offence.
The letter says 'The equipment which detected the alleged
offence is the subject of an annual calibration check and
associated certification. Prior to commencing operations the
officer undertakes an equipment check to confirm it is operating
correctly and efficiently. At this stage of your case it is not
appropriate for this office to produce the evidence of the
certificate. This can be made available to yourself at the
court.'
Having a little research online, it says 'You can request the
calibration certificate for the device used in your speeding
case. The police are not obligated to disclose this evidence
until the case goes to court, but they are required to provide
it if requested.'
I requested the calibration certificate for the device but
denied. Can they legally refuse to provide a crucial evidence to
me before the court, or are they being evasive?
I am strictly asked to return my NIP to them within 14 days.
I attached the correspondences to provide you with relevant
information and can be accessed using the links below.
I would appreciate your advice and guidance on how to respond.
Kindest regards
HTML https://freeimage.host/i/3ktG8I1
HTML https://freeimage.host/i/3ktEWSp
HTML https://freeimage.host/i/3ktEjRI
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 70771--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP/ Asked for evidence and refused
DIR By: Daim456
Date: May 10, 2025, 5:54 am
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At this stage you are being asked to idenfity the driver.
The alleged speeding is not discussed at this stage as the
Police do not know who was driver in question.
You have to sent it to the Police confirming who was the driver
and the alleged speeding can take effect later.
The camera which detects speed can vary on a bend, yes but due
to cosine effect it would be a little lower than true speed
which is in your favour.
If you wish to dispute this and the CPS would appoint an expert
and you would be liable for the expert's fee if you were
convicted in Court in additional with the penalty points, fine,
victim sucharge and CPS's cost - in the range of £1,000 to
£2,000
The speed cameras are Home Office approval which is assumed to
be in good working order unless in balance of probability you
could proven it otherwise
#Post#: 70774--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP/ Asked for evidence and refused
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: May 10, 2025, 6:22 am
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Long story short, the police don’t have to give you anything at
this point.
#Post#: 70811--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP/ Asked for evidence and refused
DIR By: Freecall
Date: May 10, 2025, 11:10 am
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.... but for the avoidance of doubt, you have to respond to the
s. 172 request by 15th of this month.
#Post#: 70814--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP/ Asked for evidence and refused
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: May 10, 2025, 11:30 am
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--- Quote from: Titan link ---
>
> I received a response through the post yesterday, only with a
few photos of the vehicle, which does not help to determine the
exact location of the vehicle on the road mentioned. However, it
is necessary to know exactly at what location of the
aforementioned road it is, as this is a road stretches for
miles, and there has been a change of driver.
>
--- End Quote ---
The given road is a number of miles but you state it is further
qualified as a restricted (30mph) section. This reduces it to
quite a small stretch, especially given the photo shows a
dual-carriageway.
If you do not provide the relevant information then they are
likely to prosecute for a s172 offence (6 points if convicted).
#Post#: 70825--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP/ Asked for evidence and refused
DIR By: The Slithy Tove
Date: May 10, 2025, 1:28 pm
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--- Quote from: JustLoveCars link ---
> This reduces it to quite a small stretch, especially given the
photo shows a dual-carriageway.
>
--- End Quote ---
I would hazard a guess at right here
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.2876253,-0.7526075,3a,30y,166.38h,89.92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sOn01_f8Y7duUjigH-gFqSQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0.0800035290866532%26panoid%3DOn01_f8Y7duUjigH-gFqSQ%26yaw%3D166.38291021377748!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1.<br
/>You can see the building in the background, the bus lane solid
line on the right, and even the car park sign in front of the
building. (Remember the large foreshortening effect of the
telephoto lens they use.) Surely you can tell who was driving at
4pm on the relevant day at this point in Farnborough. Note that
messing them around will be an expensive exercise in trying to
find a (non-existent) loophole.
#Post#: 70979--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP/ Asked for evidence and refused
DIR By: Titan
Date: May 12, 2025, 1:16 am
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Thank you very much all the responses. I will fill in the form
s172 and send it off to them.
However, I am quite adamant that the speed they claim I was
making is not accurate. How can I get more information from
them, is court the only place they will present the evidence?
Would they not provide me with the evidence of the maintenance
certificates and calibration testing documents of the device
used, as well as the training and qualification of the officer
who operated the device, along with the testing than on the day
to determine that the device was operating accurately on the
day.
I am a very diligent driver, and never speed. I am OFTEN
pressurised by the drivers of other vehicles to speed up and
tailgated, as I sternly keep at 30 on 30 road 20 on 20 road etc.
I am not trying be evasive at all, yet trying to get all the
facts straight.
Thank you all very much for your time and advice.
Kind regards,
#Post#: 70981--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP/ Asked for evidence and refused
DIR By: Freecall
Date: May 12, 2025, 2:24 am
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That information will be provided to you should the CPS seek to
rely on it in court.
What makes you think that there would be a problem with any of
it?
#Post#: 70984--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP/ Asked for evidence and refused
DIR By: The Slithy Tove
Date: May 12, 2025, 3:00 am
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--- Quote from: Titan link ---
>
> However, I am quite adamant that the speed they claim I was
making is not accurate.
>
--- End Quote ---
You can either take the course that ought to be offered at a
cost of around £100 and a few hours of your time (assuming you
haven't done one in the last 3 years, and don't dally around or
mess them about). Or you can take it all the way to court at
whatever it costs you to get expert witnesses to challenge the
accuracy of the reading, followed by the probable quite large
cost to you in fine and prosecution costs should you lose.
Your choice. Pride or pragmatism?
#Post#: 70986--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP/ Asked for evidence and refused
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: May 12, 2025, 3:40 am
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--- Quote from: Titan link ---
>
> However, I am quite adamant that the speed they claim I was
making is not accurate.
>
--- End Quote ---
Nothing you've said so far provides a defence. Your speed was
measured virtually instantaneously using laser.
--- Quote from: Titan link ---
>
> How can I get more information from them, is court the only
place they will present the evidence? Would they not provide me
with the evidence of the maintenance certificates and
calibration testing documents of the device used, as well as the
training and qualification of the officer who operated the
device, along with the testing than on the day to determine that
the device was operating accurately on the day.
>
--- End Quote ---
You will not get any of that prior to court. You would have to
reject any out of court disposal (course/fixed penalty). Making
those 'requests' will not see the Police drop the matter (no
matter what those other sites say).
--- Quote from: Titan link ---
>
> I am a very diligent driver, and never speed.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think it's more likely you thought the limit was 40mph given
the road layout. (However, the system of streetlighting acts as
the signage to make it a restricted road of 30mph)
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