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#Post#: 69999--------------------------------------------------
Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors
Parking Permit
DIR By: liverpoolpcn
Date: May 4, 2025, 5:04 pm
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Hello,
I am writing to appeal a parking ticket that I was (I think)
unfairly issued. In summary, I was given a ticket for parking in
a residents only bay.
I arrived shortly before 09:30. I went to the apartment of the
person I was visiting (up 4x flights of stairs) and back,
collected the permit and put it in my car. When I returned to my
car, at 09:37 a PCN has been issued.
I appealed this, and was told that the it was my responsiblity
to have a permit the whole time that I was parked (which I agree
with), but surely there must be some grace period to allow to go
and *get* a permit, when visiting? Secondly, I was told that the
visitors permit is not valid in a residents zone, and is only
valid on the street printed on the permit (and not the zone,
which is also printed on the permit).
I fortunatley kept the letter that the permit came with, and it
seems to contradict this - which states
'Please note that the vehicle in which this permit is displayed
may only be parked within on-street residents parking bays,
Permitted Parking Areas, Multi-Use bays, or pay and display bays
within the K Zone (see attached details), however this does not
guarantee a parking space. If you do not park wholly within the
markings of the bays, you may be liable for a parking ticket.
Please ensure that you park your car with a thought for'.
Therefore, I think I should have grounds to have this PCN
accepted. What do people of the forum think?
Please see here for a copy of:
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1594kOeVYLWAc4_e2f5w6CsijgIBbyzAz?usp=drive_link
-PCN - front and rear
-CEO's evidence
-Informal appeal rejection
-Copy of the permit, which states on the rear that parking in
Permitted Parking Areas is permitted.
Thank you.
#Post#: 70000--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with
Visitors Parking Permit
DIR By: liverpoolpcn
Date: May 4, 2025, 5:07 pm
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Informal Appeal - sent 21st April 25.
--- Quote ---
>
> To whom it may concern,
> I was issued a PCN on 19 April 2025, when parked on Back St
Bride Street. There were no parking spaces on Bedford Street
South, which is why I parked behind the building I was visiting.
> I arrived for a 09:30 appointment at the top floor arparmtnet
154 Bedford Street South, to assist with their WIFI system. This
apartment is on the top floor, (4 flights of stairs).
> I arrived approx. 09:28 and made my way to the property. I was
carrying a large box of WiFi and networking equipment.
> On arrival, I put down the equipment, got a visitors permit
from the resident and returned to put this in my car.
> In this time, a PCN has been issued, having made observations
between 09:29 and 09:36.
> At little after 09:37, I returned to find a PCN on my car.
> I request that the PCN is cancelled, as I did have access to
and display a valid residents permit when I was parked. For
parking systems that require a physical permit, sufficient time
should be allowed to actually collect the permit.
> I have attached time stamped photographs, which demonstrate
the time I returned to my car and put the permit in.
> Thank you,
>
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 70004--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with
Visitors Parking Permit
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: May 4, 2025, 6:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Your google drive document link doesn't seem to work properly.
It tells me I have to request access. There must be some option
that you need to set to make the file folder public?
#Post#: 70007--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with
Visitors Parking Permit
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 4, 2025, 6:59 pm
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The basic principle for all controlled parking spaces, is that
time is allowed to pay or obtain a voucher/permit/disc etc If it
wasn't, nobody could ever park legally ! Their letter is
therefore total tosh, but is the usual Fob-Off letter.
Adjudications over the years have established that no
contravention occurs for parking and then going to the intended
address to obtain a parking permit. I have read adjudications
many years ago that established this principle and it still
applies. So you should stand your ground on this one and take
them to adjudication if they prove obdurate.
#Post#: 70060--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with
Visitors Parking Permit
DIR By: liverpoolpcn
Date: May 5, 2025, 8:59 am
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Hello,
I have tried to share it with Drop Box - perhaps this will work.
Thank you both for your replies so far.
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/x6r9ttqgpduffjf4jssgw/AK-YISLZ76UhIgEYo-TsSLc?rlkey=wdl503fbhiw7me1swm26fdoh2&dl=0
#Post#: 70089--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with
Visitors Parking Permit
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 5, 2025, 3:13 pm
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--- Quote ---
> "City Council has legally designated the areas as a PPA so
> that any residents, providing they are able to clearly display
a valid resident
> permit or in the event of visitors a valid visitor permit, may
park anywhere
> within the PPA."
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> "I have considered the points that you have made about the
issue of the PCN.
> Unless you are in receipt of a valid ‘Residents Parking
Permit’, you must park
> your vehicle in a manner that complies with the parking
regulations."
--- End Quote ---
How they can produce such tosh is beyond me. You need to take
them all the way with this one. Yes, you have to risk the extra
£35, but do you really want to joint the Mugged Club ?
If you are going to stand your ground, you need to wait for the
Notice to Owner, then submit your reps again. Hopefully somebody
with half a brain will then cancel the PCN. If you pay-up now,
it is game over.
#Post#: 70137--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with
Visitors Parking Permit
DIR By: twigtwig
Date: May 6, 2025, 3:13 am
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Posted in error
#Post#: 70237--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with
Visitors Parking Permit
DIR By: liverpoolpcn
Date: May 6, 2025, 9:48 am
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Hello Incandescent,
I am happy to donate the money, if the PCN is cancelled, on
behalf of the website to the hospice mentioned on some posts or
to support the website itself as this is important work!
I agree entirely that their rejection letter is contradictory
and tosh, it even says in the T&C of the permit that you may
park in a PPA with a visitors permit!
I have one question. The council have said that the permit is
valid only on the street printed on the permit (in this case
Bedford Street South). However, this is not stated on the terms
on the back of the permit, the letter that it came with - and in
addition - it also states Zone K - so surely it follows the
permit is valid in Zone K too (which is what all other docs
suggest!?)
I will wait until I receive NTO - thanks both for your advice. I
feel confident that we will be sucessful.
#Post#: 74794--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with
Visitors Parking Permit
DIR By: liverpoolpcn
Date: June 4, 2025, 11:20 am
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Hello - NTO has arrived today - please see here -
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/a9rgzm4zdk9i3xwzolkal/Notice-To-Owner.pdf?rlkey=lr39i72tzvcwkc9p2fe60wj8x&dl=0
I was going to reply and re-appeal on the earlier grounds (nb I
took the minimum time possible to obtain a paper permit). I also
was going to appeal on the following points of procedural
impropriety.
-In the response to my informal appeal, the council state that :
--- Quote ---
> I have noted the details within your incoming challenge and
the evidence of the permit supplied and I must inform you that
the permit you have submitted is not valid in the location your
vehicle was parked, therefore had the permit been displayed in
the vehicle a PCN would still have been issued.
>
> When a visitor’s permit is issued it is valid within the Zone
in which is stated on the permit, however if a permit has a
specific street name printed then the permit is only valid in
that location.
>
> The permit that you have supplied clearly states visitors
permit, Bedford Street South, meaning the permit is only valid
when used in a vehicle parked in Bedford Street South.
--- End Quote ---
While on the letter that came with the permit it states
--- Quote ---
> Please note that the vehicle in which this permit is displayed
may only be parked within on-street residents parking bays,
Permitted Parking Areas, Multi-Use bays, or pay and display bays
within the K Zone (see attached details), however this does not
guarantee a parking space. If you do not park wholly within the
markings of the bays, you may be liable for a parking ticket.
Please ensure that you park your car with a thought for others
by leaving as small a gap as is practical and note that if you
park across driveways you will risk having your permit
cancelled.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Finally, in the NTO, in the second paragraph, of the NOTE, there
appears to be an error in their template, which states 'A
penalty charge of £ &CBALA is now payable!
Any other grounds / advice appreciated.
Best.
#Post#: 74848--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with
Visitors Parking Permit
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 4, 2025, 4:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
You should point out in your reps, that their statement in their
letter that your permit was only valid for Bedford Street South,
contradicts the instructions issue by your council for use of my
permit. These state : -
<extract from instructions>
You were therefore entitled to park in any zone within the 'K'
zone.
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