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#Post#: 69876--------------------------------------------------
Civil enforcement Ltd PCN Help
DIR By: Lex23
Date: May 3, 2025, 11:37 am
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Hi everyone,
I was hoping someone could offer some advice on a situation I’m
currently dealing with.
My partner’s car is registered in my name, and unfortunately,
she received three parking fines last year. When she goes
swimming, the usual car park is often full, so she started
parking next door at a car park shared by a carpet store and pet
shop, which is managed by Civil Enforcement Ltd. She did notice
the signs but was reassured by a friend who regularly parks
there without issue.
Unfortunately, my partner ended up receiving three fines. We
didn’t find out straight away, which is partly our fault, as we
hadn’t updated our address in time. Eventually, they obtained my
current address through the DVLA, but by then the chance to pay
the reduced fee or appeal had passed.
I’ve read the Newbie Thread (thank you for putting it together),
but I’m struggling to find the right steps for my current
situation. There’s a lot of information—which is great—but I
could be missing something specific to my case.
After doing some research, I saw a lot of advice suggesting not
to pay these fines as they’re often seen as unfair or excessive.
I followed a template to dispute the charges and received a
response from Civil Enforcement Ltd. They answered some of my
points but are now demanding payment or threatening further
action.
The original fines were £100 each, but they’ve added £70 to
each, bringing the total to £510. I know this situation started
with a mistake by my partner, and I’m willing to take
responsibility if I have to, but I feel the added £70 per fine
is excessive. Ideally, I’d like to resolve this by paying the
original £100 per fine, if that’s a possible outcome.
I’d really appreciate any guidance—should I stand my ground or
try to negotiate a settlement for the original charges?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Best regards,
Lex
#Post#: 69880--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil enforcement Ltd PCN Help
DIR By: RichardW
Date: May 3, 2025, 11:47 am
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These are in no way 'fines' they are speculative invoices for an
alleged contractual breach. Please show us the PCNs, your appeal
and their response.
#Post#: 69890--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil enforcement Ltd PCN Help
DIR By: b789
Date: May 3, 2025, 1:34 pm
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READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/
You'll need to show us exactly what you put in any appeal. Has
the driver been identified?
The fake added £70 is not usually allowed if they try and sue
for the alleged debt.
#Post#: 69897--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil enforcement Ltd PCN Help
DIR By: Lex23
Date: May 3, 2025, 3:40 pm
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This is what I’ve wrote to them on the 8th February:
Dear Sir/Madam,
Re:
I am writing to formally dispute the alleged parking violation
associated with the above reference number. As the registered
keeper of the vehicle, I was not the driver at the time of the
alleged incident. Additionally, I did not receive any initial
correspondence regarding this matter—only letters from debt
collection agencies.
I request that you address each of the following points in your
response:
1. The sum you are demanding appears to be a penalty and does
not reflect any actual loss incurred. Please provide a breakdown
of how this charge has been calculated, as it may be
disproportionate, punitive, and potentially in breach of
Schedule 2 of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.
2. If you claim a contractual breach has resulted in financial
loss to you or the landowner, please provide a detailed
explanation of this loss. If you are alleging trespass, please
substantiate any consequential actual loss. Given that
unoccupied spaces were available, my presence did not prevent
other vehicles from parking or making payments.
3. At the time of parking, I did not see any signage at the
entrance or within the area. Clear and visible signage is
required to form a contractual agreement.
4. Upon revisiting the site, I have confirmed that no
appropriate signage exists. Please provide photographic evidence
that clearly shows signage was in place on the date in question.
5. Your Civil Parking Notice constitutes an invoice for payment
and should therefore include a VAT registration number and
invoice reference, in accordance with VAT regulations. The
absence of this information raises questions regarding the
validity of your demand.
6. If my challenge/appeal is rejected, please provide the
following documentation to allow me to prepare a formal appeal
to POPLA:
•A copy of your contract with the landowner authorizing you to
manage parking at the site.
•A copy of the contract that you allege I entered into by
parking.
•Photographic evidence of signage in situ, including locations
and dates of photographs.
•A copy of the full terms and conditions for the use of the
land.
•A copy of your BPA membership certificate.
•A copy of your enforcement and CCTV protocols.
•A copy of your appeal procedure, confirming compliance with the
Arbitration Act 1996.
•Full details of the landowner so that I may contact them
directly.
•Copies of all images you hold of my vehicle.
Under the Data Protection Act, I am entitled to access this
information. Additionally, please confirm your protocol for
handling personal data, including whether images of my vehicle
have been disclosed to third parties other than POPLA.
Please provide this information within 35 days of receipt. If
you are unable to supply any of the requested documents, please
provide an explanation for each omission.
I look forward to your prompt response.
Yours faithfully,
The sent the following on the 3rd May:
We refer to the above and your recent correspondence.
The PCN was issued as you exceeded the maximum free parking
period for the vehicle registration XXXXXX on 06/06/2024 at CAR
PARK AT CHATHAM ROAD, OFF BRISTOL ROAD SOUTH, NORTHFIELD, B31
2PD.
Following the date of violation, on 11/06/2024 the DVLA provided
us with your name and address as the registered keeper for the
vehicle. The address provided was the one of (my old address).
As such, the PCN and reminder letters were sent to this address.
As you are no doubt aware, pursuant to s18 of the Road Vehicles
(Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002, it is the
motorist’s duty to ensure that the DVLA is immediately informed
of any change of address.
As no response was received to any of our correspondence and in
line with section 24.1 of the BPA Code of Practice (this states
that we should take 'reasonable endeavours to ensure that the
contact details for the person you are writing to are correct'),
our debt resolution partner (DCBL) carried out an address check
and they located you at a new address (my new address). As such
our letter before action was sent to this address.
1. The £70 is, as set out in the Letter before action (LBA), a
debt recovery charge. You were given notice of this charge on
the signage at the site, and on the PCN. It is permitted under
the British Parking Association Approved Operator Scheme Code of
Practice – see paragraphs 20.9 and 24.1b. We also refer you to
appeal cases VCS Ltd v Percy, VCS v Idle &
Ward (both heard at Leeds County Court before HHJ Saffman)
and Britannia Parking Group Ltd v Semark-Jullien, an
appeal heard by HHJ Richard Parkes QC, the designated Civil
Judge at Salisbury County Court, where the entitlement to charge
a debt recovery fee was the main issue in the case and the
appeal.
1. The legal basis for the ticket we have issued is 'Contract
Law'. By parking in the car park where our signs clearly display
the terms and conditions of parking, the driver consented, by
parking their car on the site and are bound by such terms,
therefore PCN was issued correctly, and payment is now
outstanding.
2. You stated in your correspondence that there were many vacant
parking spaces on the day in question. The capacity of the car
park does not alter the stated parking terms, nor does it alter
the fact that you failed to adhere to the stated parking terms.
3. Please find attached date stamped images of the signs
throughout the car park. We can confirm that we have authority
to manage the car park on behalf of the owner/tenant, to enforce
the terms and conditions of parking and the authority to issue
proceedings in respect of any unpaid charges. A copy of our
authority to manage the car park will be provided as part of the
disclosure of documents with our Witness Statement should this
matter proceed to trial.
4. Please note that we use ANPR cameras which record all
vehicles entering and exiting the car park. These high-tech
cameras are not designed to monitor movements within the car
park and we do not operate Closed Circuit Television (CCTV)
cameras.
Numerous letters including a PCN, Reminder and Final Reminder
were sent to you and it is now too late to appeal. The sum
outstanding is £170. If this sum is not paid in full within 14
days, proceedings will be issued, without any further reference
to you.
Yours faithfully,
Legal Team
For and on behalf of
Civil Enforcement Limited
I have attached a copy of one of the PCNs
Many thanks
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 69898--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil enforcement Ltd PCN Help
DIR By: Lex23
Date: May 3, 2025, 3:46 pm
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Just to add, when I visited the car park after the fines were
issued, the original signs had disappeared; however, new signs
were put up shortly afterward.
#Post#: 69901--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil enforcement Ltd PCN Help
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: May 3, 2025, 4:02 pm
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That correspondence you sent isn't ideal - you start by saying
you were not the driver, but then follow up with a number of
statements that could imply you were:
--- Quote ---
> 3. At the time of parking, I did not see any signage
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> Given that unoccupied spaces were available, my presence did
not prevent other vehicles from parking
--- End Quote ---
The correspondence received on 3rd May refers to a Letter Before
Action - have you received this? If so, please show us.
#Post#: 69911--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil enforcement Ltd PCN Help
DIR By: Lex23
Date: May 3, 2025, 5:18 pm
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Yeah I used a template and I overlooked that, but the car is my
partners and only she uses it, its just registered in my name.
Their response is the last time they have contacted me.
I did receive another letter from them before I contacts them
which I will find and upload.
#Post#: 69932--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil enforcement Ltd PCN Help
DIR By: b789
Date: May 4, 2025, 5:46 am
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You can safely ignore all debt recovery letters you will
receive. Debt collector are powerless to do anything except to
try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up
out of ignorance and fear.
When you receive a Letter of Claim (LoC), come back and show us
and we can advise on the next steps. Anything that you think may
be a letter before action or an LoC that does not give you 30
days to pay, is not an LoC and can be ignored.
As stated above, even if you were not the driver, your language
in the appeal implies that you were and the driver is always
liable. They can and will use that against you. You should only
ever refer to the driver in the third person.
#Post#: 69946--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil enforcement Ltd PCN Help
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: May 4, 2025, 7:32 am
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I would like to see the "Letter before action" that the parking
company referred to, if you have it.
#Post#: 70013--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil enforcement Ltd PCN Help
DIR By: Charitynjw
Date: May 5, 2025, 2:25 am
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Attached byelaws
[attachment deleted by admin]
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