DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 69863--------------------------------------------------
Newham Council Code 30 - Parked in a 30 minute bay
DIR By: artheone
Date: May 3, 2025, 9:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi All,
I am in a bit of a mess and have been advised by a friend to ask
for advice on this forum.
on the 01/11/2024 I received a ticket for parking my car in a 30
minute bay for longer than the allowed time. The bay allows 30
minutes parking, no return within an hour. I had first parked
there around 1pm, and then I moved the car and parked there
again a couple hours later as I could not find parking on my own
road. The PCN I received has an observation time of 13:49, and
the PCN was issue at 15:36. I had parked there again the second
day, at which point my car got another PCN and got towed. I have
paid that PCN and the related release fees because I needed my
car back. I had an issue with the first PCN that this post is
about.
google street view link:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/VLATF5j8Ka6TkBLB8
PCN Front
HTML https://i.ibb.co/gbMgNCK1/20250503-153414.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/vCxzp8n5
Back of PCN
HTML https://i.ibb.co/MjvB4kg/20250503-154255.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/ps7h8j1
NTO Front
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Q3dzGNkY/20250503-153511.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/zTJjwRFP
NTO Back
HTML https://i.ibb.co/qYFP7tP4/20250503-153534.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/0yVdmgdW
Notice of rejection front
HTML https://i.ibb.co/hFnrnGYp/20250503-153632.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/ZzwvwQ2y
Notice of rejection back
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Nn1NhPbq/20250503-153639.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/sJ51SGz4
Notice of rejection page 3
HTML https://i.ibb.co/ZzKVpVQ8/20250503-153711.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/5hv6g6Q8
Charge Certificate Front
HTML https://i.ibb.co/d4JVdw49/20250503-153758.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/hF14PJF5
Charge certificate back
HTML https://i.ibb.co/VpHYgzfP/20250503-153806.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/rfb2xzD1
Order for Recovery Front
HTML https://i.ibb.co/0VVbWvvh/20250503-153837.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/prrFs55J
Initially I was advised by a friend go through a company called
WPYP (WePayYourPCN.com). I paid them around 50 quid for their
services. What they have done so far:
- I sent them the PCN I received along with my reasonings. This
was the initial email I sent them:
--- Quote ---
> I am reaching out regarding a recent PCN and associated fees I
incurred on 01/11/2024 and 02/11/2024 in Newham.
>
> At the time I parked, the line markings were unclear and
partially obscured by another vehicle, making it difficult to
identify any restrictions. Although my vehicle has a valid
digital resident’s permit, my car was towed, and I received two
parking tickets. I had to pay both a release fee and the PCN to
retrieve my vehicle.
>
> Given these circumstances, I believe these charges were issued
in error, and I would like to request a reimbursement for the
fees I have paid. I would greatly appreciate any assistance you
can provide in resolving this matter.
--- End Quote ---
- They sent an informal and formal appeal on my behalf. I am not
exactly sure whet they wrote to be honest.
- I received the NTO for Newham. I informed WPYP and they wrote
back to say this
--- Quote ---
> Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
>
> I am writing in reference to PCN PN21057693. I understand that
you have received a Notice of Rejection and now have the option
to appeal to the tribunal.
>
> If the cost has been reduced, you may choose to pay it now.
However, if the cost remains at £130, it may be reduced back to
£65 or potentially cancelled altogether during the appeal
process.
>
> I have reviewed the PCN details and would like to request
additional information to assist with the assessment. The
rejection letter states that you were seen in a 30-minute space
and then again 2 hours later, but you are allowed to return
after 1 hour. Would you please confirm if we can use this
defence
--- End Quote ---
- I replied back saying that that was fine and to go ahead with
the defence[\li]
[li]Their reply was
--- Quote ---
> I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to provide
you with an update regarding your PCN PN21057693 . At this
stage, we are currently awaiting the order for recovery to
proceed with a formal appeal.
> Please rest assured that we are monitoring the situation
closely and will take the necessary steps as soon as the order
is received. If you have any questions or require further
clarification, do not hesitate to contact me.
> Thank you for your patience and understanding.
--- End Quote ---
[\li]
[li]the latest email I received from them:
--- Quote ---
> I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to provide an
update on the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) PN21057693 for the
vehicle with registration KE14 XDR.
> The contravention occurred on 1 November 2024 at 15:36 on Wall
End Road, Newham, London, under the jurisdiction of Newham
London Council.
> The required documents have been submitted to the court, and
we have received confirmation that the submission has been
successfully processed. The court has outlined the following
next steps:
> - Warrant of Control granted:*mThis will proceed in alignment
with the standard enforcement process.
> We will continue to monitor the situation closely and ensure
that you are promptly informed about any developments or actions
required on your part.
> If you have further questions or need additional support,
please do not hesitate to reach out.
--- End Quote ---
[\li]
At this point I got a bit nervous as they said that as the email
said that Warrant of Control granted and they were not
responding to my emails. I filled out the TE7 and TE9 forms
myself on advice of another friend. I am not sure what will be
the outcome.
Is this standard procedure or is there something else I need to
do? I know I probably should have sorted this out myself but
personal circumstances meant that I could not.[/li]
[/li]
#Post#: 69874--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council Code 30 - Parked in a 30 minute bay
DIR By: catnip
Date: May 3, 2025, 11:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If Newham claim that you didn't move the car then would they not
have to demonstrate this with two photos of the same wheel in
the same position with suitable timestamps?
I checked the PCN photos and there are two, but they show
different wheel positions, so can this be used to evidence that
the contravention simply didn't occur?
#Post#: 69877--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council Code 30 - Parked in a 30 minute bay
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: May 3, 2025, 11:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Which PCN is which? IE what's the PCN number for the first PCN
where you returned and re-parked after several hours?
And what's the number of the second PCN which you had to pay at
the Council's impound yard to get the car back?
Was an appeal to the Independent Adjudicator at the London
Tribunals ever submitted for PN21057693? By you or WPYP?
#Post#: 69893--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council Code 30 - Parked in a 30 minute bay
DIR By: Neil B
Date: May 3, 2025, 2:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: artheone link ---
>
> [quote]I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to
provide you with an update regarding your PCN PN21057693 . At
this stage, we are currently awaiting the order for recovery to
proceed with a formal appeal.
>
--- End Quote ---
This WPYP frew are very worry as they don'y know what tjey are
doing.
There was no reason nat all to wait for the OfR; you should have
registered and appeal with the tribunal, as was clearly stated
in the rejection.
Where they later say "forms have been submitted to the court".
1/. They don't have any authority to make applications to TEC
2/. There are no possible grounds on which they could have filed
a Witness Statment (TE9).
TE7 doesn't even come into it and you should not assume other,
unrelated, cases you may have read are the same as yours.
#Post#: 69894--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council Code 30 - Parked in a 30 minute bay
DIR By: Neil B
Date: May 3, 2025, 2:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
You should pay attention to this info about that company, who
were disolved just last week!
HTML https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12794357/officers
#Post#: 69935--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council Code 30 - Parked in a 30 minute bay
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: May 4, 2025, 5:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't see that the Traffic Enforcement Centre could have
authorised a Warrant of Control as yet. The Order for Recovery
has not yet expired. The deadline is Friday the
16th May 2025.
What's the status of the PCN for the car removal? And what's the
PCN number. Did you submit a representation to Newham
challenging this PCN?
#Post#: 70030--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council Code 30 - Parked in a 30 minute bay
DIR By: artheone
Date: May 5, 2025, 5:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> Which PCN is which? IE what's the PCN number for the first PCN
where you returned and re-parked after several hours?
> And what's the number of the second PCN which you had to pay
at the Council's impound yard to get the car back?
>
> Was an appeal to the Independent Adjudicator at the London
Tribunals ever submitted for PN21057693? By you or WPYP?
>
--- End Quote ---
The first PCN is PN21057693 and is the PCN in question. Having
reviewed the paperwork, I don't think an appeal was made to the
Independent Adjudicator, this step may have been skipped by
WPYP. I placed my trust in WPYP to deal with the process.
The second PCN I paid alongside its release fee, I don't have
details of this as I don't keep the PCNs. However, it was
cleared.
What would be the next steps? Should you recommend me paying for
this PCN?
#Post#: 70031--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council Code 30 - Parked in a 30 minute bay
DIR By: artheone
Date: May 5, 2025, 5:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: catnip link ---
>
> If Newham claim that you didn't move the car then would they
not have to demonstrate this with two photos of the same wheel
in the same position with suitable timestamps?
> I checked the PCN photos and there are two, but they show
different wheel positions, so can this be used to evidence that
the contravention simply didn't occur?
>
--- End Quote ---
This information is correct. I would appreciate guidance on how
to go about to present this point as part of my appeal, what
would be the next steps? given that I am already at this
advanced stage of the appeal process?
#Post#: 70035--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council Code 30 - Parked in a 30 minute bay
DIR By: artheone
Date: May 5, 2025, 5:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> I don't see that the Traffic Enforcement Centre could have
authorised a Warrant of Control as yet. The Order for Recovery
has not yet expired. The deadline is Friday the
> 16th May 2025.
>
> What's the status of the PCN for the car removal? And what's
the PCN number. Did you submit a representation to Newham
challenging this PCN?
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
The warrant would not have been issued yet, as you said the date
has not yet passed.
I don't have the details of the PCN from the car pound.
I don't know the process of whether a representation was
submitted to Newham challenging this pcn. Tbh, I don't know the
process overall, Ive only gone on what wpyp have sent to me. I
haven't received a letter from Newham about 'representation' and
the letters I have received, Ive attached in the original post.
What would the next steps for me to take?
#Post#: 70042--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council Code 30 - Parked in a 30 minute bay
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: May 5, 2025, 7:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Concerning the PCN and towaway. I assume you had to pay £240
release the car from the impound yard? Or was it £265?
Anyway at the time the yard should have given you a payment
receipt, the PCN and a "Representations" form with instructions
on how to challenge the PCN & removal and the deadline to do so.
Sounds like you didn't do anything.
In case this happens again please be aware that it was a mistake
not to challenge the PCN. Where a towaway is involved then
always challenge and then appeal to the Adjudicator. You have no
further financial risk in doing so and if you win then the £240
or £265 would be refunded.
As things stand there is no further remedy available to you.
More than six months have elapsed since the contravention so I
very much doubt that the Council will agree to any request to
re-open the case, on the grounds that the process was not clear
to you.
See does anyone else care to comment. Maybe it is worth asking
the Council to consider a late representation?
For PCN PN21057693 it looks like you have an on-site PCN
followed up with a posted Notice to Owner. It seems that
somebody challenged the NTO by submitting a formal
representation. Strictly speaking this should have been the
Registered Keeper or a representative with written permission.
Anyway the Council did consider the representation/challenge and
responded with a Notice of Rejection. The NoR provided details
on how to appeal the matter to the Independent Adjudicator at
the London Tribunals but it seems that you didn't do so.
Your right to appeal to the Adjudicator expired on Sunday the
23rd Feb. Since the PCN was still not paid a Charge Certificate
was served followed by an Order for Recovery (of unpaid penalty
charge). An OfR is a form of court order and cannot be ignored
or the matter will escalate to bailiff enforcement and a £75 fee
added, plus a further £235 if their initial notice is not paid.
Any attempt to appeal to the Adjudicator would now be over two
months late, which is a pity because the evidence photos support
your version of events. The evidence photos show different tyre
valve positions, suggesting that the car was moved in between
the initial observation and the PCN. And also this was a lower
level contravention, towing your car in addition to the PCN was
disproportionate.
The deadline to pay the OfR at £130 is the 16th May. Perhaps it
is worth trying to lodge a late appeal with the Adjudicator, if
you can make some sort of case that you were mislead as to the
process.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page