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#Post#: 75431--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code:31 J Entering & Stopping in a Box Junction
DIR By: Chaseman
Date: June 8, 2025, 2:25 pm
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It may be slightly late in the day to introduce this point but
see this PATAS case that I won n a YBJ because the CCTV footage
cut out before it recorded the car leaving the YBJ - as in your
case. The adjudicator - Carl Teper - made quite a point of it
but admittedly I was in the YBJ for a rather shorter time than
you (as recorded on the footage). See what Hippocrates thinks.
--- Quote ---
> PCN
> Contravention date
> Contravention time
> Contravention location
> Penalty amount
> Contravention
> Referral date
> Decision Date
> Adjudicator
> Appeal decision
> Direction
> Reasons
>
>
>
> The authority's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was
stopped in the box junction when prohibited when in Purley
Way/Croydon Road on 14 June 2013 at 16.50.
>
>
>
> The Appellant denies the contravention advancing a number of
points.
>
>
>
> However, I have allowed this appeal for the following reasons:
>
>
>
> First, I find that the stopping, if it be that, is hardly
perceptible.
>
>
>
> Second, and more importantly the vehicle is still moving out
of the box junction when the CCTV footage stops. The Adjudicator
must see the entire driving of the vehicle in and out of the box
junction. I find this to be a serious omission.
>
>
>
> Third, in any event have considering the driving of the
Appellant I do not find that this contravention is proved
because I am not satisfied that there was any sufficient
stopping that justified the issuing and prosecution of this
contravention.
>
>
>
> Taking these matters together I find that it would be unjust
and inequitable to uphold this Penalty Charge Notice, which I
find, is not proved.
>
>
>
> The appeal is allowed.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 75681--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code:31 J Entering & Stopping in a Box Junction
DIR By: mitaab
Date: June 9, 2025, 7:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Take your pick as to your representative. ;D
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Tough decision to make. ;D
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> I have made a formal complaint under The Nolan Principles.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Please enlighten me. What are the Nolan Principles, and what was
the formal complaint about?
#Post#: 75729--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code:31 J Entering & Stopping in a Box Junction
DIR By: mitaab
Date: June 10, 2025, 5:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Chaseman link ---
>
>
>
> Second, and more importantly the vehicle is still moving out
of the box junction when the CCTV footage stops. The Adjudicator
must see the entire driving of the vehicle in and out of the box
junction. I find this to be a serious omission.
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for that [member=65]Chaseman[/member].
I am afraid my car was stationary inside the YBJ for about 14
seconds before the CCTV footage stops.
I wonder if the argument presented by [member=49]The Slithy
Tove[/member] can also be used:
--- Quote from: The Slithy Tove link ---
>
> It could also be argued that the exit was clear (i.e. no
offence) when the car entered the box junction. It could easily
have slotted in the left hand side of the lane, partially
alongside the black vehicle. (Why don't people take the obvious
"escape routes" rather than stopping in the box junction?)
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 75754--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code:31 J Entering & Stopping in a Box Junction
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: June 10, 2025, 6:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
send a PM to hippocrates from his post he has it in mind to
represent you. I sadly cannot as I am unwell and not going to
commit to something I may not be able to do on the day. I will
however draft your skeleton arguments if Hippo is unable to help
#Post#: 75863--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code:31 J Entering & Stopping in a Box Junction
DIR By: mitaab
Date: June 10, 2025, 12:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Pastmybest link ---
>
> send a PM to hippocrates from his post he has it in mind to
represent you. I sadly cannot as I am unwell and not going to
commit to something I may not be able to do on the day. I will
however draft your skeleton arguments if Hippo is unable to help
>
--- End Quote ---
Wishing you a speedy recovery.
#Post#: 77627--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code:31 J Entering & Stopping in a Box Junction
DIR By: mitaab
Date: June 22, 2025, 6:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi
I am about to submit my appeal. Please can I have a draft for
the grounds of appeal.
Many thanks.
#Post#: 77629--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code:31 J Entering & Stopping in a Box Junction
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: June 22, 2025, 10:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Just picking up this thread. If you want me to represent you, I
would rather file the appeal and would need an unredacted NOR
please.
#Post#: 78212--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code:31 J Entering & Stopping in a Box Junction
DIR By: mitaab
Date: June 25, 2025, 2:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Just picking up this thread. If you want me to represent you,
I would rather file the appeal and would need an unredacted NOR
please.
>
--- End Quote ---
I PMed you. PLease check your inbox.
By the way, I was on the London Tribunal website. There is no
option for the "procedural impropriety" ground. All the
arguments mentioned in the post, would come under what ground?
#Post#: 78249--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code:31 J Entering & Stopping in a Box Junction
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: June 26, 2025, 2:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: mitaab link ---
>
> [quote author=Hippocrates link=topic=6173.msg77629#msg77629
date=1750649621]
> Just picking up this thread. If you want me to represent you,
I would rather file the appeal and would need an unredacted NOR
please.
>
--- End Quote ---
I PMed you. PLease check your inbox.
By the way, I was on the London Tribunal website. There is no
option for the "procedural impropriety" ground. All the
arguments mentioned in the post, would come under what ground?
[/quote]
Don,t try to teach granny how to suck eggs if hippo is doing
this then let him
#Post#: 82436--------------------------------------------------
Re: Code:31 J Entering & Stopping in a Box Junction
DIR By: mitaab
Date: July 23, 2025, 7:00 pm
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The FTLA team!
You must be the most "love to hate" people by the local
authorities as you continue to make holes in their revenue
purse.
The Enforcement Authority has informed the Tribunal that it will
not contest my appeal against the
Penalty Charge Notice, and I am no longer liable for it.
[member=156]Pastmybest[/member] &
[member=24]Hippocrates[/member], much obliged! You turned what
initially appeared to be a lost cause into a winner.
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