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#Post#: 69658--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
DIR By: poorthing
Date: May 2, 2025, 2:26 am
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Image of the conditions of the permit:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/JTciw45.jpeg
I accept that the car was parked in the wrong permit holder
zone.
However trying to see if it can be appealed on the basis of the
defaced sign.
#Post#: 69659--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
DIR By: poorthing
Date: May 2, 2025, 2:36 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> OP, look at the reverse of the permit and you should see its
usage terms and conditions.
>
> On the subject of signs, look at the authority's photo
evidence. You'll see a traffic sign which is clear..
>
> ..but GSV shows it's clearly not yours or even the next one,
but the next.
>
> Why, I wonder?
>
> Can your relatives take photos of these signs pl.
>
--- End Quote ---
===========================================
@ H C Anderson - yes, The authority's evidence photo - is taken
from ( Astle street). I think because the sign where I parked
was defaced the traffic warden never put a picture of the
defaced sign, he went to the other end of road (Astle street)
and took a picture of that sign which was nowhere near my car.
This was why I was hoping there was someway to appeal it. Will
have to visit on the weekend and take more photos of signs
myself.
My thinking is that the parking ticket should correspond to the
traffic sign that indicates the parking restriction. As the
sign is defaced/not clear - Could I not appeal on the basis that
the sign is not in accordance with the Traffic Regulation Order
and so the PCN is invalid? Also the authority's evidence of the
sign is from (Astle Street), while the road stated on my PCN is
Austin Road. The traffic warden intentionally did not take a
photograph of the sign near my car as it was defaced.
#Post#: 69759--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 2, 2025, 10:43 am
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My thinking is that the parking ticket should correspond to the
traffic sign that indicates the parking restriction. As the
sign is defaced/not clear - Could I not appeal on the basis that
the sign is not in accordance with the Traffic Regulation Order
and so the PCN is invalid? Also the authority's evidence of the
sign is from (Astle Street), while the road stated on my PCN is
Austin Road. The traffic warden intentionally did not take a
photograph of the sign near my car as it was defaced.
Of course you can challenge on the grounds of the above, but get
your evidential ducks in a row first. Normal practice - but not
law- for authorities is to re-offer the discount if reps are
made within 14 days of service, in your case 11 May. Wandsworth
do not include this in their PCN, but none the less may well do.
Each case turns on its own facts. Your bay was shared use.
However, the contravention description does not reflect this.
IMO, the description renders the PCN unenforceable, but because
of the thread title and first post we've been steered into a
direction of your choice!
So, to complete the picture pl obtain photos of all traffic
signs in the parking place - there are 3 according to GSV- and
where the elusive payment machines are located(on your side of
the road).
#Post#: 70188--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
DIR By: poorthing
Date: May 6, 2025, 5:57 am
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Hi,
I returned and clicked the photos requested of the signs
adjacent to the one where I got a ticket.
I got the ticket at pole numbered 008 (as seen in previous
uploaded picture). The pole adjacent on Austin road on my side(
numbered pole 009) the sign is also defaced. So both the signs
are defaced on the side I parked on. See attached photo link
HTML https://i.imgur.com/5drHLra.jpeg
However, on the opposite side of the road, there is a sign which
is clear. See attached:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Cr2S9S9.jpeg
The evidence the traffic warden provided is of the sign on the
adjacent road ( Astle road - pole 010)
There is a parking meter on the road about 10 meters from where
I had parked, opposite the Battersea Fields Practice GP surgery.
Please let me know if there is any basis to appeal. Thanks.
#Post#: 70215--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: May 6, 2025, 7:46 am
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The 009 pic suggests a pay bay so not that helpful for a permit
but does support defacement.
I'd be inclined to go on with this - at least you'll probably
end up with another rejection reoffering the discount.
#Post#: 70530--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
DIR By: poorthing
Date: May 8, 2025, 7:35 am
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Thanks this is what I have drafted, do you think its alright?
Thanks.
#Post#: 70531--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
DIR By: poorthing
Date: May 8, 2025, 7:36 am
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I will attach some photographs as evidence with all the pole
numbers and a photo of the housing permit. Do you think that
would be okay?
#Post#: 70534--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
DIR By: poorthing
Date: May 8, 2025, 7:47 am
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Dear Wandsworth Council,
Re: Appeal for PCN WA
My appeal is focussed on the defaced signage of the signs where
I parked.
I was visiting my elderly parents who live in Atkinson House and
parked on Austin Road in front of Atkinson House and displayed
the Housing parking permit provided to my parents for visitors
to park. (See attached housing permit photograph).
As you can see from my attached photograph the pole (008) where
I was parked the sign was defaced and not clearly visible. I
have also attached a copy of the adjoining pole (009) where the
sign is also defaced. I was therefore not aware that the
housing permit could not be used where I had parked as both the
signs on that side of Austin Road were defaced.
The evidence provided by Wandsworth Council traffic warden is
that of a clear sign which is on another road round the corner
of Austin Road (Astle Street) and not on Austin Road where I
parked my car. The pole photographed by the Traffic Warden is
the pole on Astle street and is clearly numbered as 010. If you
zoom in on some of the evidence photographs provided by
Wandsworth Council one can see the defaced signs in the
distance.
The contravention therefore did not occur as the bay where the
vehicle was parked was not properly signed. The signage in the
bay I parked and the adjoining bay are defaced and has therefore
makes it’s provisions illegible. It is not clear or complaint
and therefore in these circumstances no contravention occurred.
The onus is on the Council to ensure the sign is not defaced
this is contained within regulation 18 of the ‘The Local
Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales)
Regulations 1996 –
Which states:
18.— (1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the
order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to
secure—
(a)before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the
road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making
authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate
information as to the effect of the order is made available to
persons using the road;
(b)the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order
remains in force; and
(c)in a case where the order revokes, amends or alters the
application of a previous order, the removal or replacement of
existing traffic signs as the authority considers requisite to
avoid confusion to road users by signs being left in the wrong
positions.
In conclusion, The contravention did not occur. The PCN is
therefore invalid and should not have been issued due to the
defaced signage.
Please cancel the PCN.
#Post#: 70538--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: May 8, 2025, 8:19 am
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I would be less confrontational and focus on the proximity to
the estate you were visiting and that the defaced signs did not
indicate the estate permit was not valid there.
#Post#: 70612--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN -Contravention 12 - WANDSWORTH Council (Defaced sign)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 8, 2025, 6:11 pm
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You cannot lie or mislead, but you are not required to
incriminate yourself either. Here's what I would suggest:
[indent]
Dear London Borough of Wandsworth,
This representation is based on inadequate signage, owing to the
defaced signage adjacent to the parking bay.
I was visiting my elderly parents who live in Atkinson House and
parked on Austin Road in front of Atkinson House, and I
displayed the parking permit provided to my parents for visitors
to park. (See attached permit).
As you can see from my attached photograph the pole (008) where
I was parked the sign was defaced and not clearly visible. I
have also attached a copy of the adjoining pole (009) where the
sign is also defaced. I was therefore not aware that the permit
could not be used where I had parked as both the signs on that
side of Austin Road were defaced.
The evidence provided by Wandsworth Council traffic warden is
that of a clear sign which is on another road round the corner
of Austin Road (Astle Street) and not on Austin Road where I
parked my car. The pole photographed by the Traffic Warden is
the pole on Astle street and is clearly numbered as 010. If you
zoom in on some of the evidence photographs provided by
Wandsworth Council one can see the defaced signs in the
distance.
The contravention therefore did not occur as the bay where the
vehicle was parked was not properly signed, it follows that the
PCN must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
Take a timed / dated screenshot of the confirmation page.
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