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#Post#: 6189--------------------------------------------------
Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose
Lane
DIR By: ltn_hell
Date: September 27, 2023, 3:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
I received a council PCN and wanted some advice please on
whether it is worth appealing.
I had a doctors appointment on the 21st September. I was stuck
in traffic due to local LTN and was running late. I parked in my
parents road near the doctor and used a resident parking ticket
but I noticed that there were multiple signs mentioning
suspended bays so I parked where there were no signs and used
the resident permit.
When I got to my car, I saw a yellow PCN note attached to my
car.
HTML [url=http://"
HTML https://ibb.co/GFB1bTx"]https://i.ibb.co/nRZV5Cg/IMG-20230927-025335.jpg[/url]
HTML [url=http://"
HTML https://ibb.co/jrXhk6v"]https://i.ibb.co/HH87TFD/IMG-20230927-025357.jpg[/url]
As I was in a hurry, I didn't notice that the signs actually
mentioned the bays that were suspended:
HTML [url=http://"
HTML https://ibb.co/6vTnKPM"]https://i.ibb.co/0B6D0M7/IMG-20230921-173336.jpg[/url]
I was parked outside 56. As I was in a hurry, I missed the
numbers on the signs. I parked away from the signs, mistakenly
believing I was not parking near the suspended bays:
HTML [url=http://"
HTML https://ibb.co/sKrPRDK"]https://i.ibb.co/3pHsd8p/IMG-20230921-173426-1.jpg[/url]
I was in the wrong, I missed the details as I was in a rush.
Is there any point appealing? The fact I was displaying a permit
and I had a medical appointment, is it worth asking for
leniency?
Any help would be appreciated!
PS. Here is the street view:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/6tTDUBwMMogYuGjh6
#Post#: 6192--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La
Rose Lane
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 27, 2023, 4:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So, you were in a big rush, saw some spaces, and also the yellow
sign which you knew was a suspension sign, parked up away from
the sign without going to see what the sign said, and proceeded
to the doctors.
Well, in all honesty, I cannot see any credible appeal argument
to present at the adjudicators. Of course you can submit
representations to the council on a mitigation basis. These may
or may not succeed, but if the council refuse your reps, going
to London Tribunals will not succeed as they cannot consider
mitigation. I looked at the PCN and it seems OK.
Others may see something I haven't so wait a bit, but don't miss
any deadlines like the discount end date
#Post#: 6195--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La
Rose Lane
DIR By: ltn_hell
Date: September 27, 2023, 5:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> So, you were in a big rush, saw some spaces, and also the
yellow sign which you knew was a suspension sign, parked up away
from the sign without going to see what the sign said, and
proceeded to the doctors.
--- End Quote ---
Yes, that is correct. I had to walk 100 metres to my parents
house, find a ticket, fill in the ticket, walk back to the car
and display the ticket. For reasons I can't explain, it didn't
register to check the signs, I just assumed I was ok as I parks
far from the signs. I even walked past the traffic warden, fully
believing I was fine.
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Well, in all honesty, I cannot see any credible appeal
argument to present at the adjudicators. Of course you can
submit representations to the council on a mitigation basis.
These may or may not succeed, but if the council refuse your
reps, going to London Tribunals will not succeed as they cannot
consider mitigation. I looked at the PCN and it seems OK.
>
> Others may see something I haven't so wait a bit, but don't
miss any deadlines like the discount end date
>
--- End Quote ---
I think asking for leniency is my only chance, I wouldn't take
it further if it was rejected.
#Post#: 6201--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La
Rose Lane
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 27, 2023, 5:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The objective facts:
Your car was parked o/s 54/56 (the PCN states 54 but the CEO's
photo suggests 54/56).
The suspended area in that part ran from 48 to 58.
There is a normal traffic sign o/s 50 and also one o/s 62.
You were parked approx. equidistant between the two facing
towards the higher numbered properties.
The CEO photographed the suspension sign attached to the traffic
sign @ no. 50.
Now, you say 'I had to walk 100 metres to my parents house, find
a ticket, fill in the ticket, walk back to the car and display
the ticket. For reasons I can't explain, it didn't register to
check the signs,'.
Perhaps we can. There is an obvious answer, which is that you
walked towards no.62 and there wasn't a suspension sign there,
which is why there was nothing to see.
We have this issue on a regular basis i.e. councils not placing
suspension signs beyond the suspended area in some odd belief
that a suspension sign, even if some distance from where a car
is parked, has magical and magnetic properties which draw
drivers even if this is not the direction they would exit the
suspended area. In this case, as the furthest extent of the
suspended area was no. 58 then as this is obviously closer to 62
than is 50 and clearly visible the council was obliged to place
a suspension sign there.
You could check with the council before submitting a challenge.
#Post#: 6209--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La
Rose Lane
DIR By: ltn_hell
Date: September 27, 2023, 6:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your very kind reply.
I wanted to state that the photos of the road and of the sign
were taken by myself. Also, my car was outside 56, or at least
90% of my car was outside 56. Also, the car outside 60 was given
a ticket too.
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
>
> You could check with the council before submitting a
challenge.
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry but do you mean before challenging the ticket?
Thanks again
#Post#: 6223--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La
Rose Lane
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 27, 2023, 8:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but don't miss the discount deadline.
Please tell me when and where the suspension signs indicating
the recent suspension in La Rose Lane were erected (see photo).
Current suspensions in operation
Please contact suspensions@haringey.gov.uk for a list of current
and recent parking suspensions.
#Post#: 6238--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La
Rose Lane
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 27, 2023, 12:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I thank HCA for his input because I think there is an argument
that the contravention did not occur, reason - inadequate
signage of the restriction. No 58 is the highest house number on
the notice, yet clearly the CEO didn't read the sign either if a
car outside 60 got a PCN.
The bay is not delineated, so a motorist should be able to rely
on the sign he can see near his car. With no delineation of the
bay, all the parking bay signs for the bay should have the
suspension sign. Of course the council will claim otherwise, so
you'd have to go to London Tribunals for an unbiased decision.
Are you willing to stand your ground and go to London Tribunals
? There is no discount option if you do. Failure to sign
suspensions properly has won appeals in the past.
Of course I am assuming the parking restrictions sign outside No
62 had no sign ! All the above falls over if it had onwe.
#Post#: 6239--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La
Rose Lane
DIR By: ltn_hell
Date: September 27, 2023, 12:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
>
> Please tell me when and where the suspension signs indicating
the recent suspension in La Rose Lane were erected (see photo).
>
> Current suspensions in operation
>
> Please contact suspensions@haringey.gov.uk for a list of
current and recent parking suspensions.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you, I have emailed them.
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> I thank HCA for his input because I think there is an argument
that the contravention did not occur, reason - inadequate
signage of the restriction. No 58 is the highest house number on
the notice, yet clearly the CEO didn't read the sign either if a
car outside 60 got a PCN.
>
> The bay is not delineated, so a motorist should be able to
rely on the sign he can see near his car. With no delineation of
the bay, all the parking bay signs for the bay should have the
suspension sign. Of course the council will claim otherwise, so
you'd have to go to London Tribunals for an unbiased decision.
Are you willing to stand your ground and go to London Tribunals
? There is no discount option if you do. Failure to sign
suspensions properly has won appeals in the past.
--- End Quote ---
That is very interesting. So basically, the bays should have
individual bays for the signage to be correct?
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Of course I am assuming the parking restrictions sign outside
No 62 had no sign ! All the above falls over if it had onwe.
>
--- End Quote ---
No, there wasn't any signs outside 62. I took another picture
and it's possible to zoom in and see that.
Thanks for all help.
#Post#: 6396--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La
Rose Lane
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 29, 2023, 5:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> The objective facts:
>
--- End Quote ---
What objective facts? I can't see any council photos and because
the VRM has been redacted, we can't even look them up, so there
are no objective facts.
[member=658]ltn_hell[/member] please give us the number plate.
#Post#: 6649--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La
Rose Lane
DIR By: ltn_hell
Date: October 3, 2023, 1:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Very sorry for delay. Number plate is EX17BKU
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