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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 68143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Further steps notice and statutory declaration help
DIR By: RichardW
Date: April 22, 2025, 3:30 pm
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I don't think you've got to the bottom of this yet... Appears to
me that there are 2 offences in play - the original for which
you were convicted of FTF in your absence, and a second for
which you have a SJPN - although how this comes to be in your
name when you never received, or responded to, an NIP is a
mystery. Could someone else have returned it 'on your behalf'?
There's only a point doing a SD for the FTF if you can get
something out of it. If you were dual charged and you were the
driver then you might be able to do the deal and get a speeding
conviction only, which might reduce points and the fine and
avoid the MS90 endorsement code. If you weren't on either count
then you will get reconvicted (absent a defence which you don't
appear to have), and the only benefit will be a reduction in the
fine for the guilty plea - and if your earnings are higher than
the amount assumed the fine might go up.
You need to try and get hold of the SJPN and witness statement
for the FTF and try and figure out if it relates to a separate
offence to the speeding one you have. What does the witness
statement you mentioned above say?
#Post#: 68183--------------------------------------------------
Re: Further steps notice and statutory declaration help
DIR By: Richduc
Date: April 23, 2025, 2:50 am
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Hi Richard
Maybe I’ve not been particularly clear.
I’m the registered keeper of the car in question (or was as it’s
just been sold). I’ve missed all correspondence on a NIP and any
further notices and then, presumably as I’ve updated my address
details recently on my driving licence, received correspondence
in the form of a further steps notice for, as I understand it,
the FTF only, including a £1024 fine. As I didn’t know the ins
and outs I’ve chased information on the original speeding
offence thinking that’s what I need to use for the statutory
declaration. The SJNP and witness statement (from the speed
camera operator) I requested relate to and mention only the NIP.
So I’m anticipating there’s two offences I’ve been unaware of
and therefore another SJNP for that too that I’ve also missed?
The only possibility of someone else returning the NIP is the
new owners of my previous family home - unlikely as I believe
they have not been keeping any mail that may have arrived there.
I’m currently not working due to illness.
Does this make any more sense?
#Post#: 68195--------------------------------------------------
Re: Further steps notice and statutory declaration help
DIR By: BertB
Date: April 23, 2025, 3:58 am
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I think some posters are getting confused here. What you should
have had is a SJPN dual charged with speeding and FTP. What you
are unlikely to have had is a SJPN for FTP followed by a second
SJPN for the speeding charge. There is currently only one
conviction to deal with and no outstanding offences. Once the
stat dec is done there will be two offences.
The statement from the camera operator will be there only to
refer to the original offence.
Your licence online should show the one conviction code, MS90
for failure to provide driver details.
Edit. There could be a second charge relating to an entirely
separate occasion of course. But that isn't what we appear to
have here.
#Post#: 68235--------------------------------------------------
Re: Further steps notice and statutory declaration help
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: April 23, 2025, 5:46 am
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--- Quote ---
> Once the stat dec is done there will be two offences.
--- End Quote ---
Only if he was "dual charged" in the first place.
#Post#: 68245--------------------------------------------------
Re: Further steps notice and statutory declaration help
DIR By: Richduc
Date: April 23, 2025, 6:06 am
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I’ll go back to hMCTS and ask for the case number for the FTF
and see if I can get the papers for that which may show dual
offences?
There aren’t any other outstanding offences I’m aware of (I went
to my local police station last week and although they couldn’t
give me any paperwork the officer said he’d checked all my
details and there wasn’t anything else he could see) and I have
6 points, MS90 applied recently
#Post#: 68263--------------------------------------------------
Re: Further steps notice and statutory declaration help
DIR By: BertB
Date: April 23, 2025, 6:59 am
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--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> [quote]Once the stat dec is done there will be two offences.
--- End Quote ---
Only if he was "dual charged" in the first place.
[/quote]
Whilst its not 100% clear, the witness statement from the camera
operator in the original SJPN bundle would lean me toward
thinking he was.
#Post#: 68290--------------------------------------------------
Re: Further steps notice and statutory declaration help
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: April 23, 2025, 8:13 am
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--- Quote from: Richduc link ---
>
> I have 6 points, MS90 applied recently
>
--- End Quote ---
You weren’t convicted of speeding then.
#Post#: 68355--------------------------------------------------
Re: Further steps notice and statutory declaration help
DIR By: ManxTom
Date: April 23, 2025, 3:27 pm
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--- Quote from: Richduc link ---
>
> I’ll go back to hMCTS and ask for the case number for the FTF
and see if I can get the papers for that which may show dual
offences?
> There aren’t any other outstanding offences I’m aware of (I
went to my local police station last week and although they
couldn’t give me any paperwork the officer said he’d checked all
my details and there wasn’t anything else he could see) and I
have 6 points, MS90 applied recently
>
--- End Quote ---
I think what's confusing is that when you contacted the court
after you received a further steps notice about the FTF
conviction, the court sent you a SJPN and witness statement
relating only to the original speeding charge.
That's a bit confusing for a few reasons.
First, if you were contacting the court about the FTF conviction
that you knew nothing about, why didn't they send you the FTF
SJPN relating to that conviction that you were asking about
rather than the original speeding SJPN?
Second, my understanding of what usually happens when someone
fails to identify the driver is that they receive a single SJPN
charging them separately with both offences: (1) speeding and
(2) FTF. Again the question arises as to why the court has sent
you a copy of a SJPN that only bears a speeding charge. Why
didn't the SJPN dual charge you?
Third, if you never identified yourself as the driver, how was a
SJPN charging you with a single chrge of speeding raised at all?
However, if you only have 6 points for a FTF/MS90 conviction on
your licence and you have no other charges pending you are
probably ok and only need to sort out the statutory declaration
for the FTF conviction
[Edit: I'm sure you realise this now but when you contact the
courts again make sure they understand that you want details
associated with the FTF conviction]
#Post#: 68358--------------------------------------------------
Re: Further steps notice and statutory declaration help
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: April 23, 2025, 4:08 pm
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--- Quote ---
> However, if you only have 6 points for a FTF/MS90 conviction
on your licence and you have no other charges pending you are
probably ok and only need to sort out the statutory declaration
for the FTF conviction
--- End Quote ---
But he needs to know whether or not he was "dual charged" so as
yo decide how to proceed when the charge(s) are put to him
again.
#Post#: 68363--------------------------------------------------
Re: Further steps notice and statutory declaration help
DIR By: ManxTom
Date: April 23, 2025, 4:37 pm
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--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> [quote]However, if you only have 6 points for a FTF/MS90
conviction on your licence and you have no other charges pending
you are probably ok and only need to sort out the statutory
declaration for the FTF conviction
--- End Quote ---
But he needs to know whether or not he was "dual charged" so as
yo decide how to proceed when the charge(s) are put to him
again.
[/quote]
Yes - of course. I see what you mean, but... if the court has
sent him a SJPN relating only to speeding and he's been
convicted of FTF, doesn't that mean that he must have been dual
charged?
He already has the details of the speeding SJPN so isn't it only
the FTF details that he needs now? That is what I was trying to
convey, perhaps not very well, at the end of my previous post.
I certainly don't want to suggest the OP do anything that might
prejudice his chances of getting the best outcome he can at this
stage.
Pointless speculation but do you think there must be another
SJPN for the FTF that - for whatever reason - the court didn't
see fit to pass on to the OP when he enquired about the
conviction? Seems rather odd to me that the court didn't either
pass on a SJPN with two charges on it, or - if there were two
separate SJPNs - that they didn't pass on both.
If I were the OP I'd want to know what had happened and not be
worrying there might be more surprises for me...
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