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#Post#: 67767--------------------------------------------------
Need help! Received a SJP post 6 months of speeding offence but
NO NIP received ever.
DIR By: Kalz15
Date: April 19, 2025, 12:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
As per house rules I am starting a new thread unique to my case.
I received a SJP this morning for a speeding offence dated 13th
October 2024 (doing 43mph in a 30mph) and also for Failing to
Provide information (FtP). This is a total shocker as I never
received any NIP or other relevant notices/chasers for the
speeding offence before receiving SJP today. I honestly consider
me as a law abiding citizen and I would never miss actioning on
any such notice if I had received one. Moreover I work from home
most of the time and it's almost impossible for me to have
missed any post if delivered correctly as I check them everyday.
So I can safely assume the NIP was never delivered.
The SJP was received today which is after 6 months of the
speeding offence date of 13th October 2024 but within 6 months
of the FtP offence, as the date in the letter shows I missed to
provide the information before 21st November 2024.
I'am the only person who drives the car so likely I did it and
it's my first ever speeding offence. I am fine with accepting
guilty for speeding offence but I am not ready to accept guilty
for FtP charges as I never received.
Address is correct on the V5C log but I had a name change few
months ago. I have changed it in my driving license but missed
to do the same in my log book(honestly forgot). I have received
the SJP in my old name but not sure if this could be the reason
for non-delivery of NIP as address is correct and I am aware the
police don't sent it on Royal Mail tracking or track & sign, so
change of name shouldn't stop a post delivery.
I need help to know what's the best way possible. Should I plead
NOT GUILTY for both charges and state I am ready to plead guilty
for speeding only if my FtP charges gets dropped. I've learned
the FtP charges have larger implication towards my file and
insurance.
OR should I plead guilty for Speeding and NOT Guilty for FtP?
How will that affect my case?
Appreciate any help on this matter?
#Post#: 67780--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need help! Received a SJP post 6 months of speeding offence
but NO NIP received ever.
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: April 19, 2025, 1:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Kalz15 link ---
>
> So I can safely assume the NIP was never delivered.
>
--- End Quote ---
That seems the most likely explanation. Bizarrely, not all
Forces send reminders and may go straight to SJPN (at the 6
month mark!).
--- Quote from: Kalz15 link ---
>
> The SJP was received today which is after 6 months of the
speeding offence date of 13th October 2024 but within 6 months
of the FtP offence, as the date in the letter shows I missed to
provide the information before 21st November 2024.
>
--- End Quote ---
The proceedings were likely commenced before the 6 months limit
(now being outside the 6 months doesn't then give a defence) -
but is actually potentially in your benefit anyway.
--- Quote from: Kalz15 link ---
>
> I'am the only person who drives the car so likely I did it and
it's my first ever speeding offence. I am fine with accepting
guilty for speeding offence but I am not ready to accept guilty
for FtP charges as I never received.
>
--- End Quote ---
Assuming it was your car and a location/time your were at, then
pleading guilty to the underlying offence is an option.
--- Quote from: Kalz15 link ---
>
> ...so change of name shouldn't stop a post delivery.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed, a name wouldn't impact delivery if the address was
correct.
--- Quote from: Kalz15 link ---
>
> I need help to know what's the best way possible. Should I
plead NOT GUILTY for both charges and state I am ready to plead
guilty for speeding only if my FtP charges gets dropped. I've
learned the FtP charges have larger implication towards my file
and insurance.
>
> OR should I plead guilty for Speeding and NOT Guilty for FtP?
How will that affect my case?
>
--- End Quote ---
On the assumption a NIP was sent to you at the correct address
then it's difficult for you to show it did not arrive - it's
your presumption to rebut.
As you've noted, agreeing to plead guilty to the speeding
offence if they drop the s172 offence may give a better outcome
that fully defending the lack of delivery.
The usual advice is to maintain not guilty pleas - stating that
you would agree to plead guilty to the speeding if they drop the
more serious charge. This may have to be done at court if it
progresses as such.
#Post#: 67781--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need help! Received a SJP post 6 months of speeding offence
but NO NIP received ever.
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: April 19, 2025, 1:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The devil is often in the detail, and you have mostly avoided
managing to post any relevant details.
The date you received the SJPN is all but irrelevant. What
matters is the date of the Written Charge and Single Justice
Procedure Notice.
Assuming (usual caveat applies) that the underlying allegation
concerns your vehicle, the only relevant thing is the address on
your V5C (or any changes that the DVLA were processing,
variously at the date of the alleged speeding offence or the
date (or the day before the date) they looked up the keeper
details to send the NIP.
You have told us that the SJPN is in your old name, but have not
told us whether the address is correct, or on "the letter" that
you mention (presumably a copy of the NIP???).
As it stands, and assuming that none of the details you avoided
troubling us with are of any assistance, you cannot be convicted
of the speeding (unless you plead guilty to it), but you would
be convicted of the s. 172 offence unless you can convince the
court that (on the balance of probabilities) the NIP was not
delivered.
If you plead not guilty to both, you would have the option of
doing a deal with the prosecution (or possibly the court) to
drop the s. 172 charge in return for pleading guilty to the
speeding. If you plead guilty to the speeding, they might simply
drop the s. 172, or they might not - potentially leaving you
facing the points and fines for both.
N.B. If you decide to "do the deal", do not mention that the NIP
was not delivered - as that would be a defence to the speeding
charge and the court would be obliged to disregard any guilty
plea.
#Post#: 67788--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need help! Received a SJP post 6 months of speeding offence
but NO NIP received ever.
DIR By: Kalz15
Date: April 19, 2025, 2:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you so much for the response. You are so correct the devil
is the detail.
Dates from the letter Single Justice Procedure Notice letter
- Charge Date - 10/04/2025
- Posting Date - 17/04/2025
With this they have managed to charge me with just 2 days left
before completion of 6 months from the speeding offence. It's
the posting date and the date I received the letter which is
after 6 months time.
The address on the V5 is correct and it's the same address in
which I received my SJPN this morning. They have included a copy
of the NIP that they supposedly sent me and it was send to the
same address. In simple terms, the address is correct in V5 and
I received the SJP but not the NIP. I've checked all over my
home, my past posts and with all my neighbours but no sign of
the NIP. I genuinely believe it never arrived to my home. I
would never turn a blind eye on a police notice.
I live in West Midlands and just also learned through known
people in my street that West Midlands forces don't send
reminders. They send only NIP and go direct to SJPN if not
responded on time.
--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
> The devil is often in the detail, and you have mostly avoided
managing to post any relevant details.
>
> The date you received the SJPN is all but irrelevant. What
matters is the date of the Written Charge and Single Justice
Procedure Notice.
>
> Assuming (usual caveat applies) that the underlying allegation
concerns your vehicle, the only relevant thing is the address on
your V5C (or any changes that the DVLA were processing,
variously at the date of the alleged speeding offence or the
date (or the day before the date) they looked up the keeper
details to send the NIP.
>
> You have told us that the SJPN is in your old name, but have
not told us whether the address is correct, or on "the letter"
that you mention (presumably a copy of the NIP???).
>
> As it stands, and assuming that none of the details you
avoided troubling us with are of any assistance, you cannot be
convicted of the speeding (unless you plead guilty to it), but
you would be convicted of the s. 172 offence unless you can
convince the court that (on the balance of probabilities) the
NIP was not delivered.
>
> If you plead not guilty to both, you would have the option of
doing a deal with the prosecution (or possibly the court) to
drop the s. 172 charge in return for pleading guilty to the
speeding. If you plead guilty to the speeding, they might simply
drop the s. 172, or they might not - potentially leaving you
facing the points and fines for both.
>
> N.B. If you decide to "do the deal", do not mention that the
NIP was not delivered - as that would be a defence to the
speeding charge and the court would be obliged to disregard any
guilty plea.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 67789--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need help! Received a SJP post 6 months of speeding offence
but NO NIP received ever.
DIR By: Kalz15
Date: April 19, 2025, 2:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
On this - what should I do if asked reason for pleading to Not
Guilty for s. 172? Can I then provide the reason as NIP was not
delivered?
Also on the point of pleading guilty for speeding but not for
NIP (and I understand that it can go either way) - What's the
chances that they might NOT drop the s.172 charges?
--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
>
> If you plead not guilty to both, you would have the option of
doing a deal with the prosecution (or possibly the court) to
drop the s. 172 charge in return for pleading guilty to the
speeding. If you plead guilty to the speeding, they might simply
drop the s. 172, or they might not - potentially leaving you
facing the points and fines for both.
>
> N.B. If you decide to "do the deal", do not mention that the
NIP was not delivered - as that would be a defence to the
speeding charge and the court would be obliged to disregard any
guilty plea.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 67793--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need help! Received a SJP post 6 months of speeding offence
but NO NIP received ever.
DIR By: FuzzyDuck
Date: April 19, 2025, 2:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Dropping the FtF charge in favour of a guilty plea to a simple
speeding charge is routine. I can't recall a case on here (or
previously Pepipoo) where the prosecution has refused to do
this.
#Post#: 67794--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need help! Received a SJP post 6 months of speeding offence
but NO NIP received ever.
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: April 19, 2025, 2:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> On this - what should I do if asked reason for pleading to Not
Guilty for s. 172? Can I then provide the reason as NIP was not
delivered?
--- End Quote ---
Note what Andy said:
--- Quote ---
> N.B. If you decide to "do the deal", do not mention that the
NIP was not delivered - as that would be a defence to the
speeding charge and the court would be obliged to disregard any
guilty plea.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> It's the posting date and the date I received the letter which
is after 6 months time.
--- End Quote ---
Both of which are irrelevant.
Respond to the SJPN by pleading not guilty to both offences. In
the "reasons for pleading not guilty" section say you are
willing to plead guilty to the speeding offence on the condition
that the "failure to provide driver's details" charge is
dropped. This is a common procedure which is well known to all
court users (magistrates, their legal advisors and lawyers).
Before the pandemic it was necessary to attend court to
negotiate this "deal". When the pandemic hit courts were
obviously keen to avoid as many personal attendances as possible
and arrangements were made for this deal to be accepted without
a court attendance. Many courts have continued with this process
so if you make your intentions clear in response to the SJPN you
may be saved a trip.
#Post#: 67852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need help! Received a SJP post 6 months of speeding offence
but NO NIP received ever.
DIR By: Kalz15
Date: April 20, 2025, 1:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your kind response. I believe I need to give reason
for Not Guilty separately for both the offences.
For the second offence i.e speeding I will enter as "I will
change my plea and admit to the Speeding offence if, and only
if, the Fail to Provide Driver Details offence is dropped"
Can you kindly advise what should I enter as reason for the
first offence which is FtP aka s172? Can I enter the same as
above or leave it blank?
--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> [quote]On this - what should I do if asked reason for pleading
to Not Guilty for s. 172? Can I then provide the reason as NIP
was not delivered?
--- End Quote ---
Note what Andy said:
--- Quote ---
> N.B. If you decide to "do the deal", do not mention that the
NIP was not delivered - as that would be a defence to the
speeding charge and the court would be obliged to disregard any
guilty plea.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> It's the posting date and the date I received the letter which
is after 6 months time.
--- End Quote ---
Both of which are irrelevant.
Respond to the SJPN by pleading not guilty to both offences. In
the "reasons for pleading not guilty" section say you are
willing to plead guilty to the speeding offence on the condition
that the "failure to provide driver's details" charge is
dropped. This is a common procedure which is well known to all
court users (magistrates, their legal advisors and lawyers).
Before the pandemic it was necessary to attend court to
negotiate this "deal". When the pandemic hit courts were
obviously keen to avoid as many personal attendances as possible
and arrangements were made for this deal to be accepted without
a court attendance. Many courts have continued with this process
so if you make your intentions clear in response to the SJPN you
may be saved a trip.
[/quote]
#Post#: 67853--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need help! Received a SJP post 6 months of speeding offence
but NO NIP received ever.
DIR By: Kalz15
Date: April 20, 2025, 1:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Also can someone please advise me what should be expecting as
penalty for my speeding offence pleading guilty in court while
FtP gets dropped?
Will it be fine money and points on the license? OR will it be
only fine? I can understand it can change per case but I am
looking to understand what is the common routine here?
--- Quote from: FuzzyDuck link ---
>
> Dropping the FtF charge in favour of a guilty plea to a simple
speeding charge is routine. I can't recall a case on here (or
previously Pepipoo) where the prosecution has refused to do
this.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 67854--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need help! Received a SJP post 6 months of speeding offence
but NO NIP received ever.
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: April 20, 2025, 2:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Speeding carries mandatory points (except in circumstances that
don’t apply here).
There’s no law that says you have to say why you’re pleading not
guilty - it’s your god given right.
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