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#Post#: 67759--------------------------------------------------
9 points already - now have another NIP with possibility of
another 3 points!
DIR By: belinda
Date: April 19, 2025, 12:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi All
With 9 points on my licence already - one in March '23 - and
then two back to back last year ('24) in March (1 day apart) on
the same stretch of road all around 44mph in a 40 zone as well
as a speed awareness course already taken in 2022! I now have
another NIP - the offence was 51 in a 40.
As before with all other incidents the last one took place
fairly early in the morning (430am) on an empty dual carriageway
- I suspect the time of day and the type of road probably make
no difference.
The speed limit sign seems like it was clearly marked as being
40 on both sides of the part of the road I was on! Weather was
fine. So probably don't have an excuse with either of those.
There was no specific "emergency situations".
All details on the NIP are correct. The camera calibration
details seem to be in order too.
The camera was a fixed camera in the road.
I have a job that is not easy to get to - its about 15 miles
from where I live - no other easy way there other than by road
(car) and I am the only bread winner in the house - my husband
having had a stroke 3 years ago.
I really do try to watch my speed and it is very frustrating
this keep happening - I appreciate that too is no excuse.
Should I go to court and claim "hardship" or is there something
else I should do?
Can't really afford a lawyer to represent me.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
#Post#: 67771--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 points already - now have another NIP with possibility of
another 3 points!
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: April 19, 2025, 12:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: belinda link ---
>
> I really do try to watch my speed and it is very frustrating
this keep happening - I appreciate that too is no excuse.
>
--- End Quote ---
Nothing you've said thus far indicates any defence.
--- Quote from: belinda link ---
>
> I have a job that is not easy to get to - its about 15 miles
from where I live - no other easy way there other than by road
(car) and I am the only bread winner in the house - my husband
having had a stroke 3 years ago.
>
> Should I go to court and claim "hardship" or is there
something else I should do?
>
> Can't really afford a lawyer to represent me.
>
--- End Quote ---
It seems you will be a 'totter' (That is 12 points within 3
years, based of the date of the offences).
The matter cannot be dealt with by way of fixed penalty - it
will head to court.
At this time you will the opportunity to submit an 'Exceptional
Hardship' plea. You seem to have some valid points to raise to
reduce the 6 months ban (potentially to none).
Read the following court guidance carefully:
--- Quote ---
> When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid
a totting up disqualification the court should have regard to
the following:
> It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof
that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this
will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence
is given, it must be sworn.
>
> Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court
must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or
hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have
evidence.
>
> Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person
disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the
deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the
preventative effect of the order not to drive.
>
> If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the
risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can
take this circumstance into account.
>
> Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of
exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives
(including alternative means of transport) for avoiding
exceptional hardship are not viable.
>
> Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a
driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment
would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient
to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will
depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences
of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others.
--- End Quote ---
So you need to demonstrate that the hardship you and/or others
will suffer is over and above that would be suffered by other
drivers. When explaining to the court that you will lose your
job (if true), firstly you will need to present evidence of that
(e.g. a letter from your employer) and then go on to explain why
alternative employment, not requiring you to drive, is not
possible. You will also need to explain why you think the
consequences of a ban are "exceptional" (bearing in mind the
above guidance). Bear in mind that you will have had some time
to investigate such possibilities and the court will expect you
to have investigated the possibility thoroughly.
Feel free to post further with any ideas and information for
feedback. You strictly don't need legal representation - in
some ways the impact coming directly from you may be in your
favour.
#Post#: 67779--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 points already - now have another NIP with possibility of
another 3 points!
DIR By: belinda
Date: April 19, 2025, 1:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you very much for your advice.
So just to clarify - I should theoretically now fill in the NIP
saying I was the driver and see what they come back with - when
they do, is it at that point that I should opt for a court
hearing because I will automatically become a "totter" - or
should I take the penalty and THEN go to court AFTER?
#Post#: 67782--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 points already - now have another NIP with possibility of
another 3 points!
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: April 19, 2025, 1:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
What was the date of the offence that resulted in the SAC in
2022? Was it more or less than 3 years before the date of the
current offence?
Assuming that they were within 3 years, then you should not be
offered a course for this offence.
If you are offered a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, the
"conditional" part of the offer is that it is conditional on you
not being liable to tot up - so if you go through the motions of
"accepting" the offer, it will be voided when they check.
Whether you "should" do that or not would seem to depend on what
advantage (or disadvantage) you are seeking to gain by doing so.
#Post#: 67786--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 points already - now have another NIP with possibility of
another 3 points!
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: April 19, 2025, 1:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: belinda link ---
>
> So just to clarify - I should theoretically now fill in the
NIP saying I was the driver
>
--- End Quote ---
Not theoretically, you have to name the driver. Failing to do
so will see a separate charge carrying 6 points...
--- Quote from: belinda link ---
>
> ...and see what they come back with - when they do, is it at
that point that I should opt for a court hearing because I will
automatically become a "totter" - or should I take the penalty
and THEN go to court AFTER?
>
--- End Quote ---
If they're awake then they should progress the matter straight
to the court route for which you will need to attend to submit
the EH plea.
#Post#: 67795--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 points already - now have another NIP with possibility of
another 3 points!
DIR By: belinda
Date: April 19, 2025, 3:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
> What was the date of the offence that resulted in the SAC in
2022? Was it more or less than 3 years before the date of the
current offence?
>
> Assuming that they were within 3 years, then you should not be
offered a course for this offence.
>
> If you are offered a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, the
"conditional" part of the offer is that it is conditional on you
not being liable to tot up - so if you go through the motions of
"accepting" the offer, it will be voided when they check.
Whether you "should" do that or not would seem to depend on what
advantage (or disadvantage) you are seeking to gain by doing so.
>
--- End Quote ---
I need to check on the dates - but even though the letter says I
might be offered the course - I doubt it given the offences that
took place after!
#Post#: 67797--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 points already - now have another NIP with possibility of
another 3 points!
DIR By: belinda
Date: April 19, 2025, 3:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JustLoveCars link ---
>
> [quote author=belinda link=topic=6003.msg67779#msg67779
date=1745087139]
> So just to clarify - I should theoretically now fill in the
NIP saying I was the driver
>
--- End Quote ---
Not theoretically, you have to name the driver. Failing to do
so will see a separate charge carrying 6 points...
--- Quote from: belinda link ---
>
> ...and see what they come back with - when they do, is it at
that point that I should opt for a court hearing because I will
automatically become a "totter" - or should I take the penalty
and THEN go to court AFTER?
>
--- End Quote ---
If they're awake then they should progress the matter straight
to the court route for which you will need to attend to submit
the EH plea.
[/quote]
I understand better now - thank you for your very detailed and
patient explanation. I am most grateful.
#Post#: 67989--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 points already - now have another NIP with possibility of
another 3 points!
DIR By: BertB
Date: April 22, 2025, 3:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: belinda link ---
>
> but even though the letter says I might be offered the course
- I doubt it given the offences that took place after!
>
--- End Quote ---
Your driving history is not a factor. It is based upon
qualifying Speed and >3yrs between offence dates for which the
last course was taken. Remember, it is date of offence, not date
you completed the course. Your online licence record should tell
you what this is if you cannot remember.
#Post#: 68078--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 points already - now have another NIP with possibility of
another 3 points!
DIR By: ManxTom
Date: April 22, 2025, 8:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: BertB link ---
>
> [quote author=belinda link=topic=6003.msg67795#msg67795
date=1745093343]
> but even though the letter says I might be offered the course
- I doubt it given the offences that took place after!
>
--- End Quote ---
Your driving history is not a factor. It is based upon
qualifying Speed and >3yrs between offence dates for which the
last course was taken. Remember, it is date of offence, not date
you completed the course. Your online licence record should tell
you what this is if you cannot remember.
[/quote]
The online licence record doesn't contain details of offence
dates for speed awareness courses, does it?
Mine certainly doesn't.
#Post#: 68090--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 points already - now have another NIP with possibility of
another 3 points!
DIR By: BertB
Date: April 22, 2025, 10:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ManxTom link ---
>
> The online licence record doesn't contain details of offence
dates for speed awareness courses, does it?
>
> Mine certainly doesn't.
>
--- End Quote ---
No it certainly won't. Brain fart.
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