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#Post#: 67734--------------------------------------------------
Waltham Forest, code 31 entering/stopping box junction, yellow
box, High Road/Bush Road E11
DIR By: PaulCE11
Date: April 19, 2025, 10:02 am
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Thanks for your assistance
I received a PCN for stopping for 10 secs exiting a ybj at
Leytonstone High Road/Bush Road E11 with just the back wheels in
the box.
The road has two lanes of traffic and had the car in front of me
continued on I would not have been in the box at all.
The video and images are available to view on the Waltham Forest
website: www.walthamforest.gov.uk/ocm using
PCN: FR65232814
VRN: EK15 OEZ
details of the PCN are here:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/WomFY8V
Google Map link:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/y6RRRzACcGgwbLui8
#Post#: 67744--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 entering/stopping box junction,
yellow box, High Road/Bush Road E11
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 19, 2025, 11:04 am
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What a money-grubbing PCN ! We see rather too many of these and
it clearly shows just how venal and rapacious councils in
London are. There was no conceivable traffic management purpose
in issuing that PCN, just greed for the penalty money.
However, as you may have guessed, so bedazzled by the riches
gained, the council are unlikely to give way, so to fight this
you would have to take them all the way to London Tribunals,
your grounds of appeal would be "the offence did not occur, de
minimis". This means you would have to risk the full PCN
penalty, and an adjudicator with common sense, they don't all
have this vital element in their heads, I'm afraid.
Apart from the above, there may also be a 'technical' appeal
argument based on WF's mismanagement of the enforcement process,
so wait a bit to see what comes up. Don't however miss the
deadline for paying or submitting reps.
HTML https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/1-382-3382?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true#:~:text=Related%20Content,or%20taken%20into%20consideration%3B%20immaterial.
#Post#: 67754--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 entering/stopping box junction,
yellow box, High Road/Bush Road E11
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: April 19, 2025, 11:56 am
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This ia large box and given the exit space in two lanes you had
reasonable expectation of clearing and only had rear wheels in
box.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/0VCc3k7T/wf-ezgif-com-optimize.gif
#Post#: 67784--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 entering/stopping box junction,
yellow box, High Road/Bush Road E11
DIR By: MrChips
Date: April 19, 2025, 1:45 pm
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The car is only in the box junction by less than half a metre.
How can we be sure from the camera angle the car couldn't have
simply moved forward at least this much. If it could, then no
contravention committed.
#Post#: 67837--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 entering/stopping box junction,
yellow box, High Road/Bush Road E11
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: April 20, 2025, 6:18 am
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Sorry but that is not de minimis unfortunately.
#Post#: 67839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 entering/stopping box junction,
yellow box, High Road/Bush Road E11
DIR By: MrChips
Date: April 20, 2025, 6:58 am
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I wasn't suggesting de minimis. On balance of probabilities, I
expect there was at least 40cm of space ahead that the OP could
have moved forward.
#Post#: 67861--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 entering/stopping box junction,
yellow box, High Road/Bush Road E11
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 20, 2025, 4:18 pm
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--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Sorry but that is not de minimis unfortunately.
>
--- End Quote ---
In that case, then, the road markings are wrong. There should
not be the two triangular hatched areas that indicate no traffic
to pass over them.
#Post#: 68009--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 entering/stopping box junction,
yellow box, High Road/Bush Road E11
DIR By: PaulCE11
Date: April 22, 2025, 4:47 am
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Thanks very much for all your replies so far, very useful.
A local FB page has said that previous appeals have been
dismissed so wondering if I swallow it up.
#Post#: 68033--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 entering/stopping box junction,
yellow box, High Road/Bush Road E11
DIR By: Neil B
Date: April 22, 2025, 6:28 am
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--- Quote from: PaulCE11 link ---
>
> Thanks very much for all your replies so far, very useful.
>
> A local FB page has said that previous appeals have been
dismissed so wondering if I swallow it up.
>
--- End Quote ---
All local FB pages will tell you that their respective councils
are the worst.
They also use the term'appeal' generically and rarely explain
what they mean.
Appeals can only be made to London Tribunals.
Representations to the council must first be rejected before you
can do that and it's true that they likely will be.
Most often FB posters are talking about representations to
councils.
To explain Mr Chips' point >
You only commit a contravention when ypu stop in the box and
that stop is due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
So you need to weigh up whether you could have moved forward a
bit and if an adjudicator would agree with you?
#Post#: 68035--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 entering/stopping box junction,
yellow box, High Road/Bush Road E11
DIR By: Neil B
Date: April 22, 2025, 6:38 am
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> This ia large box and given the exit space in two lanes you
had reasonable expectation of clearing and only had rear wheels
in box.
>
--- End Quote ---
This refers to the ignorant points made on FB. There is NO law
saying your exit has to be clear but if we accept it anyway you
certainly had reasonable expectation od clearing the box.
How were you to know that divers of at least two vehicles in the
inside lane would move to a bus ride from the kerb (as is a
frequent London trait.)
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