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#Post#: 6065--------------------------------------------------
Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
DIR By: jl0997
Date: September 25, 2023, 9:07 pm
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Hi all, I just want to gather some thoughts on this and see if
I'm actually liable to pay for this PCN... and wondering if I
should wait for the NtO and appeal again
Basically, I have parked my car on Wardour Street at 21:30
thinking it's some usual parking space where you don't need to
pay after 18:30, but it turns out there was a "residents permit
only" parking sign in between two portable toilet. Those toilets
are almost same height as the sign, and 100% would not be able
to see from where I parked (certainly not from driver seat too),
I doubt people going to see it even walking by the street cuz
nobody would expect to find a parking sign in between 2 toilets.
So I made an appeal and I got rejected, without any
explanations, just "carried out a review of your case and
considered all of the information you provided but, on this
occasion, I am unable to cancel the PCN"
I felt this was extremely unfair and felt like a scam. This was
the appeal letter I sent:
"I am writing to formally challenge the aforementioned parking
ticket on the grounds of unclear and inadequate signage
pertaining to the residential parking restrictions in the area
where the contravention is alleged to have occurred.
On the evening in question, I parked my car at around 21:20, and
diligently searched for any signs or road markings indicating
parking restrictions. It's a common practice for me to ensure
that I am in compliance with parking regulations to avoid any
inadvertent violations. My understanding, based on the general
parking rules in the surrounding areas, was that parking bays do
not require payment after 6:30 PM. Given the lack of visible
signage or road markings to the contrary, I deemed it safe to
park in this bay.
Upon parking, I took extra precaution by walking approximately
10 meters towards Old Compton Street to look for any signs that
might indicate different parking restrictions for this
particular bay. This effort was above and beyond the necessary,
especially since my actual destination was a restaurant in China
Town, which is in the opposite direction of Old Compton Street.
Despite this extra effort, I was unable to find any signs
indicating that this was a residential permit holder only
parking bay.
The situation was further exacerbated by the presence of two
mobile toilets which significantly obscured the visibility of
the "Residence Parking Pay" sign that I later came to know
existed. The photograph captured by the enforcement officer
showcases the mobile toilets but not the sign, underscoring the
inherent visibility issue.
Moreover, the lack of road markings, which are a common feature
in other residential parking areas to indicate parking
restrictions, further contributed to the misunderstanding.
I have enclosed photographs from my driver's side perspective
showing the obscured signage and the absence of road markings.
The darkness at 9 PM further hampered the visibility of the
sign, making it highly unreasonable to expect compliance under
such circumstances.
I believe the aforementioned points highlight a procedural
impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority, warranting
the cancellation of this ticket. I am willing to provide any
further information or attend a hearing if necessary. I
understand the importance of parking regulations and always
strive to adhere to them. However, under the circumstances
described, the lack of clear and visible signage led to an
unintentional infraction."
PCN:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/nylxZ6A.jpeg
Photos from their council:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/IZm8JsH.jpeg
(see how the sign is situated in the middle of the toilets)
HTML https://i.imgur.com/tkY1PUG.jpeg
(see where my car positioned with the toilet.. I definitely
didnt expect there's a sign in between those toilet..)
HTML https://i.imgur.com/9BQJekP.jpeg
Photos I took on the night, just to prove there's no way for me
to notice the sign at all, especially it's dark and close to
where everyone is urinating.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/hG2Sfav.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/STUmEq4.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/wSqjen9.jpeg
The rejection email I got:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/kbaipiw.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/w59O2M5.png
Any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
everyone...
#Post#: 6081--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 26, 2023, 4:39 am
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A very, very, brief, almost terse response. This could be
considered a 'failure to consider', but we need to see your reps
to check.
As to the visibility of the sign, one does have to wonder why
the council plinked down two toilets either side making the sign
virtually invisible from anywhere apart from a direct frontal
view. This could win at adjudication, but it's not a slam-dunk
win, in my opinion.
Can you post up the back of the PCN, please, there are sometimes
fatal errors in the small print.
#Post#: 6128--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
DIR By: jl0997
Date: September 26, 2023, 12:32 pm
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Hey thanks for the reply. I’m new here, what do you mean by
reps? The appeal I sent to council initially was the long
message i included at the first message if that’s what you
meant.
This is the back of the PCN ticket
HTML https://i.imgur.com/knnEgiE.jpeg
#Post#: 6134--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: September 26, 2023, 1:07 pm
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--- Quote ---
> I’m new here, what do you mean by reps? The appeal I sent to
council initially was the long message i included at the first
message if that’s what you meant.
--- End Quote ---
That's what Incandescent meant. To be pedantic on terminology:
for PCNs affixed to vehicle, there are three stages
1) make an informal challenge or informal reps
(representations) against PCN: may be made by the driver -
that's what you've done
Then, if rejected,
2) wait for the NtO (Notice to Owner) and make formal reps
against NtO - may only be made by the owner (special rules apply
if registered keeper is company or leasing company) - or a
person authorised in writing by the owner.
Then, if rejected by Notice of Rejection of Representations. the
way is open to register an appeal to the appropriate tribunal,
for which forms are enclosed with the NoRR.
Yoiu have until 5th Oct.(by my calculation) to decide whether to
pay the discount or wait for the NtO.
#Post#: 6143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
DIR By: guest17
Date: September 26, 2023, 2:59 pm
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Unable to cancel = fettered discretion. But this depends on the
OP's representations.
See this one which gives a fair idea of what the Council must
say:-
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1Iarj9u0rW4mxIqpbeg5beRI7xMYq98i8
I presume the OP put forward grounds of inadequate signage. If
so, the Council's response is sadly lacking.
Mike
#Post#: 6145--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: September 26, 2023, 3:04 pm
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@MMV
--- Quote ---
> I presume the OP put forward grounds of inadequate signage.
--- End Quote ---
OP's grounds are in the opening post.
#Post#: 6154--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 26, 2023, 3:47 pm
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OK, so if the OP is willing to stand his ground, representations
should be submitted against an Notice to Owner under the
statutory grounds of "procedural impropriety".
Frankly, I have never in all my years on Pepipo and now this
forum, seen such a contemptuous response to an informal
challenge which was very detailed. They are basically saying
"boll**ks to you" defying you to take them to adjudication and
thus risk the full PCN penalty.
#Post#: 6206--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
DIR By: jl0997
Date: September 27, 2023, 6:32 am
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Yea ok thanks everyone for the thoughts. Looks like their reply
is really some bs... I guess I will wait for the NtO to be sent
and make a formal appeal then, the position of the sign (or the
toilets) are just ridiculous and I dont think I would ever give
in to such nonsense
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