DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Private parking tickets
*****************************************************
#Post#: 71437--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK - Euro Car Parks
DIR By: jfollows
Date: May 14, 2025, 5:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Schedule 4, to be precise,
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4
#Post#: 71443--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK - Euro Car Parks
DIR By: StfuECP
Date: May 14, 2025, 6:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you. I've read through Schedule 4 but I'm struggling to
understand it and also which parts of it ECP have failed to
comply with in their NtK. Are you able to point out the relevant
paragraphs please?
#Post#: 71451--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK - Euro Car Parks
DIR By: b789
Date: May 14, 2025, 6:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Is PoFA paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) complied with? Does the NtK
specifically invite the Keeper to pay the charge? As far as I
can see, it only mentions that the driver must pay.
Also, check out the PPSCoP. In big bold writing on the front of
the NtK it says that payment is to be made within 28 days of
issue. Section 8.1.2(e) of the PPSCoP says that the recipient of
a notice has 28 days from the date of receipt, not date of
issue.
ECP signs are never PoFA compliant with paragraph 2(2) or 2(3)
as they do not adequately bring the charge to the attention of
the driver. Do a search for examples of the sign in the Beavis
case and the ECP sign and you will see the difference in how the
£100 chargers is presented.
Also, put ECP to strict proof that they have a valid contract
flowing from the landowner that permits them to issue PCNs at
the location.
#Post#: 71467--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK - Euro Car Parks
DIR By: StfuECP
Date: May 14, 2025, 8:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I believe they do comply with 92ei and instruct me to pay if
they don't. See attached. Have I misunderstood?
Will look into the signage and land owner issues.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 71478--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK - Euro Car Parks
DIR By: b789
Date: May 14, 2025, 9:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The NtK is addressed to the Keeper. They do not know the
identity of the Driver. Where is there an "invitation" (or any
synonym of the word) that says the Keeper can just pay the
charge?
The note only says the Driver is liable and should pay it. It
does not invite the Keeper to pay it, only to tell them who the
driver is (which there is no legal obligation to do so) and to
pass the notice to the driver.
All the sub-sections of PoFA paragraph 9(2) MUST be complied
with for the creditor to be able to transfer liability from the
unknown driver to the known Keeper. Partial or even substantial
compliance is not enough.
Just as a person cannot be partially or even mostly pregnant,
the Notice cannot be partially or even mostly compliant with
PoFA. It is a binary issue. It either is or it isn't PoFA
compliant.
#Post#: 71537--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK - Euro Car Parks
DIR By: StfuECP
Date: May 14, 2025, 2:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Okay, I've reread it a few more times and I think I understand
now.
They don't invite me to pay it. They say that I'm "liable" if
the driver doesn't pay, or say they have a right to "recover"
the costs. They don't actually ask me to pay the fine do they?
So this is the crux of their problem and it is this issue that
makes it non compliant?
Thanks so much for your help.
#Post#: 71550--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK - Euro Car Parks
DIR By: b789
Date: May 14, 2025, 3:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Please stop referring to it as a "fine". A poxy, ex-clamper,
unregulated private parking company is not an 'authority' of any
kind that can issue "fines" or "penalties".
It is nothing more than a speculative invoice for an alleged
breach of contract by the driver. Do not dignify them with the
idea that their PCN is a "fine".
As for the failure to "invite" the Keeper to pay the charge,
there can be no implied obligation. They either invite the
Keeper to pay or they don't. In this case, they don't.
Many operators include something like this to overcome the
issue:
--- Quote ---
> You are now invited to:
>
> [indent](i) Pay the charge; or
> (ii) Provide the drivers name and address for service and pass
this notice to them.[/indent]
--- End Quote ---
They have chosen not to do this.
#Post#: 71560--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK - Euro Car Parks
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: May 14, 2025, 4:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
IMO, it is certainly arguable that 9(2)(e)(i) has not been
complied with in this case.
As for substantial compliance not being sufficient, IMO case law
is against this view. But this shouldn't prevent the keeper
arguing the 'invitation' point at POPLA. But if this is done,
then IMO the reason for its inclusion and the effect of its
omission should be referred to.
#Post#: 77408--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK - Euro Car Parks
DIR By: StfuECP
Date: June 20, 2025, 11:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi,.I've just realised the POPLA appeals date passed 10 days
ago. Am I completely screwed now? What will their next steps be
and what can I do in the meantime?
Thanks.
#Post#: 77425--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK - Euro Car Parks
DIR By: b789
Date: June 20, 2025, 12:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
You just ignore all the debt recovery letters you are going to
receive. Debt collectors are powerless except to try and
persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up
out of ignorance and fear.
Eventually, you will receive a Letter of Claim (LoC). When you
do, come back and we will advise further.
No one who follows the advice pays a penny to ECP.
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 6
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page