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DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
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#Post#: 7788--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
DIR By: S23
Date: October 19, 2023, 7:26 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> It seems to me this is the ley sentence: -
> [quote]Since then a notice to owner (NTO) was served, however
due to life events, I was unable to respond within the 28 day
period.
--- End Quote ---
Please post your reps that you submitted, albeit late, against
the Notice to Owner.
Form TE9 does not seem to cover your circumstances: -
/
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1094509/TE9.pdf
[/quote]
The text in the original appeal was re-sent (please see original
post - spoiler tag) and dated the letter to be within the NTO
period.
#Post#: 7789--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: October 19, 2023, 8:01 am
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Council had options
They could have accepted the challenge and dealt with it
They could have rejected as late
They say it never arrived.
To me this situation is covered by the sent reps but got no
reply ground on the Witness Statement.
#Post#: 7794--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 19, 2023, 8:50 am
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--- Quote from: DancingDad link ---
>
> Council had options
> They could have accepted the challenge and dealt with it
> They could have rejected as late
> They say it never arrived.
> To me this situation is covered by the sent reps but got no
reply ground on the Witness Statement.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think it does, because that ground refers to the PCN,
and the OP sent reps against that and received a rejection, but
not the NtO.
--- Quote ---
> I was served a PCN for parking in a residents bay, however it
was incorrectly served as there were misprints on the PCN itself
(information missing). I appealed, however this was rejected and
they supplied the missing information via response in the
letter.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 7795--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: October 19, 2023, 9:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> [quote author=DancingDad link=topic=596.msg7789#msg7789
date=1697720473]
> Council had options
> They could have accepted the challenge and dealt with it
> They could have rejected as late
> They say it never arrived.
> To me this situation is covered by the sent reps but got no
reply ground on the Witness Statement.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think it does, because that ground refers to the PCN,
and the OP sent reps against that and received a rejection, but
not the NtO.....
[/quote]
Post 4 suggested that OP sent same reps in reply to the
NTO...late but sent?
#Post#: 7910--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 20, 2023, 5:21 pm
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When did you actually receive the notice to owner?
#Post#: 7912--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
DIR By: S23
Date: October 20, 2023, 5:24 pm
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Not sure, dated 23rd Aug so maybe 25-28th Aug?
#Post#: 7944--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
DIR By: spaceman
Date: October 21, 2023, 6:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: S23 link ---
>
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=596.msg7782#msg7782
date=1697716280]
> It seems to me this is the ley sentence: -
> [quote]Since then a notice to owner (NTO) was served, however
due to life events, I was unable to respond within the 28 day
period.
--- End Quote ---
Please post your reps that you submitted, albeit late, against
the Notice to Owner.
Form TE9 does not seem to cover your circumstances: -
/
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1094509/TE9.pdf
[/quote]
The text in the original appeal was re-sent (please see original
post - spoiler tag) and dated the letter to be within the NTO
period.
[/quote]
This might suggest that, if ignored by the authority as
out-of-time or challenged by them that your reps to the NtO were
not submitted in time, you will rely on your pre-dating these so
they appear to have been submitted, by you, in-time.
Is this your intention?
#Post#: 7948--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
DIR By: S23
Date: October 21, 2023, 7:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I didn't see a reason to date my correspondence any other
way
#Post#: 8004--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 21, 2023, 1:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: S23 link ---
>
> Yes, I didn't see a reason to date my correspondence any other
way
>
--- End Quote ---
Regulation 18 of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic
Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England)
Regulations 2022
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/576/regulation/18
is a
good enough reason:
[indent]
False representations
18.—(1) A person who—
(a) makes any representation under Part 2 or 3, or any provision
of Schedule 1 so far as it relates to an appeal under regulation
7(1) or 10(1), that is false in a material particular, and
(b) does so recklessly or knowing it to be false, commits an
offence.
(2) A person who is guilty of an offence under paragraph (1) is
liable on summary conviction to a fine.
[/indent]
Your representations were, by your own admission, out of time.
They were also, by your own admission, false and misleading in a
material particular. As a matter of fact and law, the authority
was entitled to disregard them. You cannot now file a witness
statement with the traffic enforcement centre, because that
would be a contempt of court, which is punishable with
imprisonment of up to two years.
I'm not sure why anyone would risk a criminal record for the
sake of a parking ticket. I suggest you pay the penalty, that
should ensure nobody has reason to look into this any further.
#Post#: 8014--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN incorrectly issued, NTO appeal date missed
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 21, 2023, 2:37 pm
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We're getting our wires crossed IMO.
Was the keeper entitled as a matter of law to submit reps under
reg. 5 (Part 2) late? Yes.
Were they entitled to 'make false reps? No.
Were the authority entitled to disregard? Yes.
Did they? No, they said they didn't receive.
IMO, while the OP doesn't have 'clean hands', this in itself
does not relieve the authority of its duty nor remove the
keeper's rights.
But when all is exposed, it is highly unlikely that the council
would take action.
OP, what proof do you have that you submitted reps against the
NTO? You cannot have proof of posting dated 17th, can you, so
what proof do you have?
IMO, no proof means the adjudicator* would be entitled to decide
not to register the authority's referral as an appeal, which
would leave you owing the surcharged penalty.
*- the authority would, if notified by TEC that the OfR had been
revoked, be required to refer the matter to the adjudicator who
may issue directions. These are normally: show us your proof.
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