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#Post#: 67056--------------------------------------------------
'PCN' - Edinburgh LEZ
DIR By: PocketGuy
Date: April 14, 2025, 10:14 am
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Hi Folks
Brand new here - arrived via a pointer from the MSE forum.
I live in Porto, Portugal now, but was briefly back home and
visiting family in Edinburgh and Glasgow last month when I fell
foul of an enforced LEZ boundary in Edinburgh.
Basically, we crossed a boundary realising that we were going
into a LEZ, as the traffic flow gave us no opportunity once the
sign became visible, then turned around within 20 m and exited -
I have some evidence of this.
Looking to see how I proceed, as Edinburgh City Council won't
engage in a conversation about this - I got an automated email
response to my email saying (roughly) 'pay or appeal using the
process given' and that no enquiries would be responded to.
The camera shot on the Notice shows the car parked, as we were
just inside the boundary marker and waiting to turn around to
exit.
My Google Timeline shows (albeit roughly) that we left the
street, retraced our route, then came back on the correct route
(passing the edge of the LEZ boundary) and avoided it
completely.
Question is... I clearly entered the zone, notwithstanding that
we were barely there for 2 minutes and no more than 20m into the
zone. Am I wasting my time asking for clemency/fighting this, or
should I make a representation?
It's currently a £30 charge (I thought it was £90, but
apparently that's if I contest it and they find against me).
Don't really want to pay, but not averse to doing so if the risk
of ending up paying £90 is high.
Appreciate any feedback/advice you can offer.
Thanks in advance 😁
Images:
Contravention Notice
[img]
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Utr8bGKXi0tinqtzh7bxV-o7ehkYIVV5/view?usp=drive_link[/img]
Maps Timeline showing [very roughly] the 3 driving routes: into
N Charlotte St, back along Queen Street, then back the 'right'
way, avoiding the LEZ
[img]
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D88tEV8xaPLiG85c0JM3ZuaiG1A36JDa/view?usp=drive_link[/img]
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 67109--------------------------------------------------
Re: 'PCN' - Edinburgh LEZ
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 14, 2025, 3:15 pm
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You'd better have a read of these regulations then : -
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2021/177/contents/made
Please post all sides of the PCN, and also un-redact the vehicle
registration number on Page 1 and repost. As far as I know this
is the first thread on this forum for a Scottish LEZ. However,
it is similar to English ones, and involves service of a Penalty
Charge Notice that you can pay or submit representations
against.
Edit
Except that there are two key differences -
1. The PCN penalty goes up and up the more times the same
non-compliant vehicle enters the zone. This is the most
draconian scheme I have ever seen, outrageous in my opinion.
2. There is a statutory ground I've never seen before which one
has to wonder how it can possibly be proved: -
--- Quote ---
> (f)that the contravention did occur but in light of
extenuating circumstances, it would be unreasonable to
> impose a penalty charge notice.
--- End Quote ---
So who decides when something is "unreasonable" !
It's in Regulation 8
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2021/177/regulation/8/made
#Post#: 67252--------------------------------------------------
Re: 'PCN' - Edinburgh LEZ
DIR By: PocketGuy
Date: April 15, 2025, 12:13 pm
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Many thanks for the reply - it's very much appreciated.
Happy to unredact (or simply declare) the reg. but to what end,
may I ask? Why is this useful?
I'm pretty twitchy about what the Council might deem
"unreasonable" grounds for enforcement and am veering towards
paying the £30 rather than risking the £90 that I'll almost
certainly have to pay if they don't see the circumstances for
the alleged contravention as 'reasonable' or extenuating.... and
I strongly suspect they'll take this view, having a) dealt with
them before and b) noting your very valid point about the
ever-increasing charge as being "draconian".
That belies a particular mentality, IMNSHO, which does not bode
well.
Seems to me that this setup is a racket to shake out £30 charges
from the unsuspecting motorist, rather than a legitimate
mechanism to mitigate the impact on the city environment.
I can't seem to edit the original post, so here's the back of
the Notice...
Thanks again.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 67267--------------------------------------------------
Re: 'PCN' - Edinburgh LEZ
DIR By: Daim456
Date: April 15, 2025, 1:45 pm
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It can be helpful if the reg is shown so we can check if your
vehicle is compliant with LEZ.
Do not worry about £90, it would not happen unless you ignore
everything and they would issue the Charge Certificate.
£60 is the maximum you pay even the Tribunal make a ruling
against you.
However the photograph showing you exiting the LEZ Zone.
I would tempted to make a representation that they did not show
you entrying in a LEZ Zone. The North Charlotte Street leading
to Queen Street is LEZ Zone.
You could ask the Council for video footage and post it up here.
#Post#: 67274--------------------------------------------------
Re: 'PCN' - Edinburgh LEZ
DIR By: PocketGuy
Date: April 15, 2025, 2:39 pm
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Ah, understood.
I've checked the car and it isn't (compliant). It's pre-Euro 6
[Diesel] spec.
£90 - that's comforting to know.
The Council did finally respond to my email... saying the only
way to get enquiries/questions dealt with was to submit a
representation as per the reverse of the PCN letter.
I can try again with a direct email and ask for evidence of me
leaving the zone, but I'd not hold out much hope.
The PCN picture is of the car parked at the beginning of the LEZ
(just after the LEZ warning sign), waiting for traffic to pass
so we could turn around and leave.
If you look at the attached, you can see the boundary between
Albyn Place and N Charlotte St. The white truck in the pic just
around the bend is where the car was.
Good idea to ask for the exit footage - hadn't thought of that.
Looking at the precise boundary line on the Council's map, it
appears that I was no more than 10m inside the LEZ boundary, and
went no further into it than that... but there is, technically,
a contravention. The LEZ boundary starts just after the road
bends into N Charlotte St, and I was parked on the straight
section, more or less outside #2 N Charlotte St.
Thanks also for pointing out my misreading of the text - it read
to me as if I'd be charged an extra 50% if I were to contest -
didn't connect the "If you do *not* pay the charge" with the
next statement properly.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 67300--------------------------------------------------
Re: 'PCN' - Edinburgh LEZ
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 15, 2025, 5:49 pm
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Don't miss the deadine for submitting reps or making payment. We
see rather too many people not realising there is a clock
ticking from the day a PCN is considered served to its
recipient. The PCN explains how to submit reps, so you need to
follow the process defined there.
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