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#Post#: 66996--------------------------------------------------
Haringey, code 16 Parked in a permit space or zone without a
valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical
DIR By: afroditi
Date: April 14, 2025, 6:00 am
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Hello and thank you in advance for all the help you are proving
via this forum.
I am not the registered keeper of the vehicle and therefore I
use hourly parking permits for now during the 2 hour parking
restriction outside my house. Of course I am a named driver on
the insurance just not the owner.
Summarising here key points to explain the situation as briefly
as possible:
- I stopped outside my house at approx 15:45 to offload a box I
had collected from Tottenham Hale so I can continue my journey
without the risk of having the car broken into. (I have payment
history on my phone to act as proof of that if needed at all)
- Some minutes later, I go outside to take the car and leave and
my neighbour is telling me that a Civil Enforcement Officer had
just scanned my number plate and she explained to him that I was
just in and out and leaving (she had seen me going in with the
box and I had said to her exactly that)
- I see the officer slowly walking towards me while I'm talking
to the neighbour right next to the car as I am ready to depart
- The moment he arrives I say hello to him and explain that as
my neighbour had said, I just dropped a box and I'm leaving
- He immediately cut me off telling me in a
threatening/unprofessional tone "your ticket is already issued"
and in that moment he starts taking pictures of the car to issue
the ticket, and takes pictures of the number plate while I'm
standing there in front of the car!
- That was literally 10 minutes before the parking restrictions
ended and he rushed to issue the ticket before I leave
As you can see in the attached pictures he took, both myself and
the neighbour are standing in front of the car in shock trying
to explain the obvious.
He was not listening to anything, he was extremely rude. As you
can also see in the pictures attached to the PCN, I took the car
and left within 3 minutes of the moment he issued the ticket and
therefore he never honoured the 5 minute observation before
issuing the PCN for a resident bay.
By the way, he is not the assigned CEO on the street - the CEO
who always attends the area had already been and this other
officer seems to be going around during the last few minutes
even though this part is covered by someone else and it's only a
2 hour window.
Things I want to ask:
1. First and foremost - is it legal to issue a PCN when the
driver is present and ready to leave and all this in a timeframe
less than 5 minutes? That feels more like bullying rather than
anything else. I tried to find the CEO code of practice but the
link is broken.
2. Can a PCN be issued within the last 10 minutes of the parking
restriction?
3. The PCN doesn't clearly state that the ticket will be on hold
while a representation is being considered and then the
discounted price of £65 will still be applicable should they
reject the representation - is that legal? Lack of this clarity
might force someone to rush in paying the ticket that should be
challenged.
4. Can it be that some councils might decide to not extend the
discounted price of £65 after the representation is made? In
other words, is it legal for them to do so? I saw that you have
compiled a list of such councils but it was not clear to me if
they are allowed to do that or not.
I have bought over 80 hourly visitor permits on my Haringey
account and I have proof of purchase too, which proves I do use
them otherwise I would not have wasted all that money to buy the
permits. I have also raised a written complaint with the council
for this specific officer and his unprofessional behaviour.
What would be your advice here?
[member=1]cp8759[/member] also thought of tagging you because I
understand you have previous experience with Haringey Council.
All documents attached here:
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Suuhrk1fWfvRIhk6tw3wQL1dRqPEIr5F?usp=drive_link
..but please feel free to let me know if not able to see them.
Thank you again.
Afroditi
#Post#: 67002--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, code 16 Parked in a permit space or zone without a
valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid phys
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: April 14, 2025, 6:20 am
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Please post a GSV link to the location.
#Post#: 67003--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, code 16 Parked in a permit space or zone without a
valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid phys
DIR By: afroditi
Date: April 14, 2025, 6:29 am
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Link to the location is here:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/UaunY1KT3Wbwr9K6A
Thank you!
#Post#: 67012--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, code 16 Parked in a permit space or zone without a
valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid phys
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: April 14, 2025, 7:19 am
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Here?
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/FJ4JtQDTQwo5Mjon7
How large was the box - you may be able to claim unloading?
#Post#: 67016--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, code 16 Parked in a permit space or zone without a
valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid phys
DIR By: afroditi
Date: April 14, 2025, 7:42 am
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The box is as big as all the other marked resident parking areas
you see in the link you provided - unfortunately maps don't take
me outside the exact location.
But why would I try to claim for unloading in case all (or some
of) the above issues I have raised are valid?
I'm not sure if what you are saying is that what happened is
absolutely fine and my only reason to claim can be due to
unloading..
Thank you.
#Post#: 67018--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, code 16 Parked in a permit space or zone without a
valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid phys
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: April 14, 2025, 7:56 am
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The PCN was sent by post because the council claims they weren't
able to serve it on the car or to you.
The PCN time is 15:50. There is a council picture of two people
standing by the car at 15:51 and one seems to making what could
be a rude gesture.
So did the CEO attempt to give you a windscreen PCN or serve it
on the car or could it be that he/she felt unable to do so
because of the situation.
#Post#: 67022--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, code 16 Parked in a permit space or zone without a
valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid phys
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: April 14, 2025, 8:02 am
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--- Quote from: afroditi link ---
>
> The box is as big as all the other marked resident parking
areas you see in the link you provided - unfortunately maps
don't take me outside the exact location.
>
> But why would I try to claim for unloading in case all (or
some of) the above issues I have raised are valid?
>
> I'm not sure if what you are saying is that what happened is
absolutely fine and my only reason to claim can be due to
unloading..
>
> Thank you.
>
--- End Quote ---
Not the box you parked in, but the box you unloaded and carried
in...
--- Quote ---
>
> to offload a box I had collected
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 67027--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, code 16 Parked in a permit space or zone without a
valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid phys
DIR By: afroditi
Date: April 14, 2025, 8:27 am
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[member=2249]stamfordman[/member] as explained in the
description, I was standing by the car as I was ready to leave -
the other person is the neighbour as described - I am really not
sure why you seem to think there is a gesture that seems to be
"rude", I don't know how that is assessed. In that moment we
were both trying to explain to the CEO the obvious and we are
both in shock by his unprofessional attitude at all levels.
The reason why he was not able to put the notice on the car is
because I was leaving and he was rushing to create a ticket
before I go. People don't casually stand next to their cars
unless they are arriving or leaving, either way the CEO cannot
force you to stay put so that they can issue a PCN without
observing the 5 mins which he clearly did not observe! Have you
read the description I shared above?
[member=5]John U.K.[/member] Thanks for clarifying, the box I
unloaded was quite large yes but I don't have a picture of that
anymore, only the order confirmation with the items that would
give an idea of the size and weight of the box but I don't
suppose this would by any means be more valid than the fact that
a CEO did not follow proper procedure before issuing a PCN..
#Post#: 67033--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, code 16 Parked in a permit space or zone without a
valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid phys
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: April 14, 2025, 8:45 am
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My take from what you say is the CEO was prevented from serving
the windscreen PCN and the postal PCN is therefore properly
served.
Observation time is not a grace period, just time councils guide
CEOs on to assess if exempt activity is ongoing and is not
mandatory.
Your best bet IMO is to apologise for preventing service but
claim the exempt activity of (un)loading xxxx, which took only a
few minutes.
The PCN date is 8 April and London-wide PCN amounts went up on 7
April (in this case to £160) but Haringey deferred the increase
to today. So if you end up paying the discount you'll at least
be saved a £15 increase.
#Post#: 67035--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey, code 16 Parked in a permit space or zone without a
valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid phys
DIR By: afroditi
Date: April 14, 2025, 8:54 am
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[member=2249]stamfordman[/member] thank you for explaining - he
was by no means prevented, and this is why I kept standing where
I was while he took the picture of the rear plate and after that
point I entered the car and left as intended (all shown in the
pictures).
Is the council not obliged to put this on hold if I send my
representation - let's say today - and then after I receive
their presumably notice of rejection I can still pay the reduced
price?
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