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#Post#: 66632--------------------------------------------------
Any advice on how to appeal FOI request re Tfl parking tickets?
DIR By: SAZZA
Date: April 11, 2025, 8:38 am
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Following on from the very helpful and knowledgeable advice I
received on here regarding a change of permissible hours (now
7pm-7am) in a loading bay on a Tfl Red Route, I am now seeing if
anyone on here could give me any advice on appealing a FOI
request refusal from Tfl. Not sure if this is the right place
but I thought I'd try.
Despite the change in hours to 7pm to 7am, there continue to be
many, many vans and lorries, (as well as private vehicles) who
regularly continue to load and unload to serve the adjacent
shops and pubs etc during the day. It would be impossible for
them to continue in business otherwise. When I ask the drivers
(as I have done many times!) if they have they have ever
received a PCN, they always say no and they were unaware of the
change in hours.
I have started to suspect that the camera operator is only
targeting private vehicles or that there is some implicit
agreement not to issue PCNs to commercial type vehicles.
I put in a FOI with Tfl asking for a breakdown of the number of
tickets issued in these bays for the last 2 years to see if I
could ascertain whether this was the case but it has been denied
on the basis of public interest and preventing potential
offenders from taking advantage of the information.
If anyone has any advice on what to say in an appeal (or whether
to even bother), I'd be very grateful. I really don't see why
the public shouldn't know how much they're making from these
ridiculous restrictions, especially if they are not being
administered equitably.
#Post#: 66654--------------------------------------------------
Re: Any advice on how to appeal FOI request re Tfl parking
tickets?
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: April 11, 2025, 11:19 am
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Have you a live PCN? If not, this thread will be transferred to
the Flame Pit.
#Post#: 66657--------------------------------------------------
Re: Any advice on how to appeal FOI request re Tfl parking
tickets?
DIR By: SAZZA
Date: April 11, 2025, 11:25 am
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No live PCN. SORRY. Flame pit it is. Thank you.
#Post#: 66680--------------------------------------------------
Re: Any advice on how to appeal FOI request re Tfl parking
tickets?
DIR By: Grant Urismo
Date: April 11, 2025, 12:54 pm
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What *exactly* did you ask them for?
Did you ask through whatdotheyknow.com ? If so, a link would be
useful for us to get up to speed.
#Post#: 66682--------------------------------------------------
Re: Any advice on how to appeal FOI request re Tfl parking
tickets?
DIR By: SAZZA
Date: April 11, 2025, 1:27 pm
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Your interest is much appreciated.
I made the request via the tfl website. “Please send me details
of the number of PCNs issued for the loading bay outside 36-38
Tooting High Street, LONDON SW17 for the last 2 years, broken
down by quarter or, ideally, by month.”
The reply was: I can confirm that we hold the information you
require. However, we are unable to disclose the number of PCNs
as the information is exempt from disclosure under section 31 of
the Freedom of Information Act, which can apply where release of
information would be likely to prejudice the prevention of
crime, or to prejudice the apprehension or prosecution of
offenders. This is because the release of this information (or
similar information in relation to other areas) would reveal
locations where enforcement activity is less likely to be
implemented and may therefore encourage people to ignore
restrictions at those locations. Whilst we make no suggestion
that you would use this information for anything other than your
own interest, the disclosure of information under FOI is
regarded as a disclosure to the public at large.
The use of this exemption is subject to an assessment of the
‘public interest test’ to determine whether the greater public
interest rests in the exemption applying and the information
being withheld, or in releasing it in any event. We recognise
the need for openness and transparency by public authorities and
the fact that you have requested the information is in itself an
argument for release. However, in this instance we feel that
balance of public interest lies in favour of withholding the
information to ensure that we are able to manage traffic on the
TfL Road Network. It would be strongly against the public
interest to release any information that would undermine this.
We consider that the release of this information would lead to
increased traffic problems as some motorists may seek to take
advantage of the information, which would have a detrimental
effect on street management. This principle has been previously
agreed by the Information Commissioner in relation to a similar,
previous request, as can be seen in the following Decision
Notice - the same arguments apply in your case:
HTML https://ico.org.uk/media/action-weve-taken/decision-notices/2021/2620057/ic-69434-n9n7.pdf
#Post#: 66696--------------------------------------------------
Re: Any advice on how to appeal FOI request re Tfl parking
tickets?
DIR By: Grant Urismo
Date: April 11, 2025, 5:07 pm
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I'll be honest and say I would probably side with the council
here. If (as seems to be the case in a lot of places) they
operate a system where a few very expensive cameras are moved
between a lot of often empty observation points, revealing this
data might well let you work out their rota.
If you're angry about which vehicles they are targeting, it
might be better to ask for a copy of all written instructions
given to camera operators that indicate which vehicles they
should issue PCNs to and which they should not.
#Post#: 67014--------------------------------------------------
Re: Any advice on how to appeal FOI request re Tfl parking
tickets?
DIR By: SAZZA
Date: April 14, 2025, 7:25 am
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Hi. Thanks for your response. You're probably right and I should
just drop it. It's just there's so much injustice around, I feel
it should be challenged.
#Post#: 67093--------------------------------------------------
Re: Any advice on how to appeal FOI request re Tfl parking
tickets?
DIR By: roythebus
Date: April 14, 2025, 12:56 pm
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Keep on with the suggested challenge, it costs you very little.
#Post#: 67667--------------------------------------------------
Re: Any advice on how to appeal FOI request re Tfl parking
tickets?
DIR By: Grant Urismo
Date: April 18, 2025, 2:31 pm
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Agreed - another FOI asking for the written instructions given
to camera operators that indicate which vehicles they should
issue PCNs to and which they should not would be pretty easy to
do.
I also recommend using whatdotheyknow.com (as long as you're ok
with your real name being published), as the Council's responses
will be published online where htey can be read by the public.
This is useful if you want to get journalists interested.
Sometimes Councils claim copyright on their FOI responses,
saying you can't share them with journalists - which probably
isn't legally true, but you probably don't want to risk.
As an aside, and something that might make a nice flame pit
debate, I suspect that if the Council does have a policy to not
enforce against commercial vehicles, they might not actually be
doing anything legally wrong (even if it is morally wrong or
unfair). One thing this forum takes advantage of to win tickets
is the rule that states that the council has discretion to
cancel at any time. Often they fetter this discretion meaning
they lost PCNs at the tribunal, but I'm not aware of any rule
that stops them overusing this discretion to allow certain
categories of vehicle to flout the rules.
#Post#: 67684--------------------------------------------------
Re: Any advice on how to appeal FOI request re Tfl parking
tickets?
DIR By: roythebus
Date: April 18, 2025, 5:19 pm
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Quite simply if they ticket every commercial vehicle evry day
the drivers would simply refuse to work in London. Shops would
run out of stock etc..
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